to not report this child to SS?

[ChickandDuck]

I appreciate this is quite an emotive subject, but after a conversation with a friend last night I wanted to see what the general consensus on this kind of thing is...

There is a child that attends the same nursery as my DC. I have noticed this DC a few of times, in nursery and whilst out and about, just because there's a couple of things that don't sit right. Both Mum and DC have been in unwashed clothes each time I've seen them (quite clearly unwashed and caked in dirt and muck), I've seen DC on the way to nursery in just a t-shirt (it?s freezing!). Granted, he's not covered in bruises (although he is always red eyed and looks tired/unhealthy?), but does the fact that he is not clothed adequately and washed constitute as not being cared for properly? She could be a fantastic Mum, but is a bit clueless with clothing/washing? My friend (whose job means she works closely with SS) thinks I should phone and express my concerns. It hadn't occurred to me before; I assumed that the staff at the nursery will as aware as I am...?
Plus, as I explained to my friend, the area that I live in neighbours an area that is full of children like this (whilst walking through the other day there was a child, no more than 2yo, half dressed outside the front of her house on her own. Another example would be a mother shouting and swearing at a child no older than 4yo because she asked for something from Greggs ) and if I contacted SS for this child, I'd be doing it everyday I go out?

I feel as if I would BU for phoning SS, I just feel it?s a bit dramatic?

no I'm not. you are complaining that someone is overwiesght, unhealthy, has bad teeth and didn't put a coat on her child.
Or did I misread it ?

Oblomov I know this is a sensitive subject for you but I dont think you read the OP properly.

She is concerned about her friend's keeness to report this family.

twinsmommy - I didn't either, until my conversation last night! I not going to engage with any conversations about his job in future! Thank you for your sensible advice.

And you are asking if BU to NOT phone SS.
Which is the same as , is it reasonable to phone SS. Or not.

Is it not ?

Or have I misunderstood.

And once again , I did read op very carefully. and have not attacked you or written anything nasty..
Why should my opinion not count then ?

Oblomov, I gather that you have had a bad experience with SS, and I'm sorry for that. My response was because I felt you didn't understand what I saying. My question was AIBU to NOT report this child to SS, to which your reply was yes.

No really I did read OP very carefully.
Her friend suggested phoning ss.
She had not considered this until her friend suggested it.
She thought, maybe not. She wasn't sure. So she came on to ask for advice on whether it was reasonable to phone ss. Or whether it was o.k. to NOT phone ss.
Same thing really, surely.

Have I got it all wrong here. would someone like to correct my misunderstanding.

as I have said before, previously I had not felt the need to report this family to SS, until told to do so last night after a conversation about my friends job. I am not trying to be hurtful, I just hope that if mum does need some help, she gets it.

I know. You friend suggested it to you.
And you were not sure. Report ? not report ?

The OP is essentially the assame thing.

Shall I (Op) report them or not.

That IS the question you were asking isn't it ?

AIBU, to NOT report them = the same as AIBU TO report them.

I still maintain, that I have not said anything nasty to Op. I believe my POW does varrant some consideration - maybe I am alone in this

I'm very uneasy with the motivation of somebody who will ring social services but NOT directly engage with the person they're concerned about or even people close to that person. You say you don't want to appear patronising - how do you think engaging other parties before even trying to find out the facts yourself makes you look?

I suggest you express some concern to the nursery staff - for all you may know they may already have made contact about this situation and whilst they shouldn't tell you exactly what they've done you could get reassurance the situation is ok. I was concerned about a child who always arrived 40-50 minutes early for school and was hanging around outside on freezing mornings so I rang the head and whilst he couldn't tell me what was happening he could tell me it was being addressed.

The other thing you could do is to try and befriend this woman and see what's actually going on with her - again this will either reassure you or enable you to express concerns based on knowledge of the situation not prejudice in the purest sense of the word.

why don't you suggest to this woman that she contacts homestart to see if they can offer her some practical support.
Homestart is designed for this very purpose.
More so than ss, who have to work very hard to protect children who are being abused.
Homestart is more appropriate than ss in this situation.

Also, as others have said, the nursery has legal obligations. They have to refer if they are concerned about a child. If they have not done so, there must be good reason.
Why have they not ? Have you asked yourself that ?

...and I wasn't complaining. I was explaining why I felt the family might need some help. I feel like you have taken my post as this:

there is a fat lady that brings her unhealthy looking child to school without a coat. AIBU to get them removed from my sight?

which is not the case at all. I am concerned, and after being given some questionable advice last night am asking for some advice, to which twinsmommy has come to my rescue

Look you have seen the children, we haven't. If you feel there truly is some kind of neglect going on then you do need to voice concerns, possibly to SS but i don't know who to tbh.

It is you who have the gut feeling.

You don't want to talk to nursery, incase you appear patronising.
But you don't feel it is patronisiing to consider to/not to phone ss?

I don't understand.
Please clarify.

I had already assumed that the nursery would be involved if there was a problem, which is why I hadn't intended to do anything. I said previously it's great idea to befriend her, but she's always late and I pass her on the way back.

It's playing on my mind becuase he said the whole "if you don't and you see something in the paper..." but I will write to the nursery and then I can put this to bed.

I trust the nursery staff to do their job properly. My own DC goes there. For me to go in and question whether they are doing there job properly would, to me, appear patronising. I don't want to have a bad realtionship with the staff that look after my child.

no, no. I didn't take your post to mean that.
You posrted more information about appearance of mum, bad teeth etc later, in the thread.
And I am very saddened to see juju's advice. I know she has a point. but we are all a bit trigger happy in this society. One thing happens and a person thinks, report report.

Do you have any idea of the damage that can be done, by a phone call to ss.
You prob don't. But let me tell yuo, it is terrible and stays on your records for ever and ever.

At this rate, we will all be reporting eachother , in a minute. And I don't mean to exaggerate. As a society we are heading that way, it would appear.

Make contact with the nursery, I feel that may be the best thing for you to do. It is good that you have compassion for the children if something seems wrong, hopefully the Mother will receive some kind of help.

and I would feel completley uneasy approaching someone who I have not spoken to saying "I'm concerned about your child, do you need help?" even though I would love to help!

"At this rate, we will all be reporting eachother , in a minute"

this was exactly my arguement with him. Do you think it would be a good idea to drop a note in at the nursery?

why don't you befriend this woman? Ask her round for coffee so the children cam play together

if you would love to help, just do it

strike up a conversation, invite her to your home

KristinaM - like I have said I now only ever pass her on the way back from school whilst she is on her way, I doubt she'll be in the mood for a chit chat! Plus her DC is in a different group to mine so she might be a bit

Chickenandduck - As i said earlier my own ds has a disorder, he is a deathly shade of white because of anemia, his eyes are red and sore where he constantly rubs them, he soils himself so he often smells too, his two front teeth are turning grey where he has killed the nerves in them, he has had to have 5 other teeth removed. All because of his disorder.

He also doesnt sleep and i often look terrible, because of lack of sleep.

None of the other mums in the playground know my ds has a disorder.

Oh well i suppose it will either result in lots of offers of cups of coffee or a visit from the ss

OP- i think you're getting a really hard time here. From your posts, it's clear to me, that you're not just talking about a child without a coat who is a bit grubby, but a family you have real concerns about. Everyone's child can get mucky, but deep-seated dirt IS a health issue and can be a sign of neglect.

Have a look at this website for suggestions on what to do if you suspect a child is being neglected:

www.actionforchildren.org.uk/content.aspx?CategoryID=623

I can understand you not wanting to discuss this with nursery but if you do suspect neglect, I think you have a duty to discuss it with somebody. According to the link above you can make an anonymous call to SS.

Good luck. I think deep down you will know whether you truly have concerns or not and that can be difficult to convey over a forum- you're gut feeling is important. And while it's true none of us would like SS turning up on our doorsteps, the truth is that neglect and abuse of children continues because too many people look the other way.

SS have to go through a lot of protocols and procedures before a child is removed, and they provide an array of services to parents who are evaluated as a result of reports from neighbours, etc., according to what the circumstances seem to require.

Before making a report, I would try to befriend this person, though. Maybe you could offer her and her son an lift to nursery, if you see them still walking there when you're on your way back after dropping off your DD? You could judge the situation better if you spent a bit of time in their company and see the bigger picture, the quality of their interaction, the demeanour of the child with you, etc. And I think going to the nursery staff would never come across as patronising -- choose your words, maybe write a short and businesslike note.