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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want to be defined by my marital status or surname?

811 replies

tealight · 19/10/2009 23:05

To be not at all surprised that women still strive to achieve equality when some/many/most (???)women in marriage take on men?s surnames and (in marriage or not) agree to their children taking the man?s surname? That is the way it used to be when women and children were literally, in the eyes of the law, men?s property. That is the basis o the tradition for fathers to give their daughters away. And why should my marital status be used to define me every time I fill out my personal details? Miss, Mrs, Ms? Men just have Mr. Yet many of us still subscribe to this. Why why why?????

OP posts:
LovelyKay · 20/10/2009 22:25

DH didn't really understand why I was bothered about the whole thing until he went to the hospital for some supplies the day after DD was born and was addressed as Mr Myname. Weirded him out a tad. Said he could now understand why people getting a name wrong could be aggravating.

Re: the point of it all. It's like the marriage certificate giving your father's profession but not your mother's; Jeni Murray said that was one of the reasons she would never consider getting married now. Personally I think maybe we could just change the form? A gift to the genealogists of the future! Small changes do have a cumulative effect...

nooka · 20/10/2009 22:26

Oh, and sorry to whoever posted that article, but I think it was really pretty crap. Except for the bit about not mentioning fathers. I am neither "Insecure or conservative or stupid" and I don't pass comments on people who choose to keep their own names, use a different professional name, double-barrel, invent a new name or adopt their wives names. I respect their choice, and I expect them to respect mine. As for officialdom, I feel your irritation. I have all my official stuff as either just initials or just first name last name where I can. When I get stuff to Ms Myname I find it slightly annoying if I have specified i am a Mrs, but as I'm more likely to get my first name scrambled into all sorts of weird combination I am fairly relaxed about such things.

curiositykilled · 20/10/2009 22:26

needanewname - I've been boxed off as a name changer actually. I'm bothered by this idea of the poor oppressed women who change their names and should be advancing the sisterhood by taking 'one for the team' and going against their silly romantic notions...

NeedaNewName · 20/10/2009 22:28

OK ermentrude, lets get rid of surnames all together and we could be known by your first name and your national insurance number - thats something that stays with you all your life.

Somehow needanew NC 34 82 34 X doesn;t have the same ring though

differentnameforthis · 20/10/2009 22:30

sprogger, No, I wanted my family to all have the same name.

Surnames have nothing to do with bonding!

I know couples who aren't married & the children have a different name to either parent, doesn't mean they can never bond! What a daft thing to say!

NeedaNewName · 20/10/2009 22:32

Sorry curiosity - got confused there, meant to be a repsonse to lovely kay - oops

Lovelykay (got it right this time!) when I got married I certainky didn;t have my fathers profession on the certificate - it may have happend in the olden days but not 7 years ago.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/10/2009 22:36

Family names can be important in family identity in some situations. I gave mine below, and said why it was important to me. Not important to you obviously, not to many, but to some.

Lots of blanket statements on this thread. Not many shades of grey.

Georgimama · 20/10/2009 22:37

I'm quite happy that being married to my DH and being the mother of DS are things that (partly) define me. They are part of what I am. I am also defined by my own actions, opinions and thoughts.

I think some people are over thinking this.

LovelyKay · 20/10/2009 22:37

Provocatively
This reminds me of the Brazilian/body hair debate. Now my armpits AND my passport encompass acts of political resistance.

ermintrude13 · 20/10/2009 22:38

nooka I don't respect views which I find silly. That doesn't mean I don't respect people. I have a few good friends who changed their names on marriage, a fact I find bemusing/ weird/sad/preposterous depending on the friend, but I haven't lost respect for them as people, or affection for them as friends.

NeedaNewName that's not the most imaginative solution I've ever heard; what an extreme reaction to a sensible suggestion!Do you genuinely think that the only alternative to our current naming system (which is in itself a social construct, obviously) is some kind of hellish postmodern numerical code? .

curiosity Tradition = Romance is a dangerous formula. And confusing a man-made naming system with True Love could lead to all sorts of trouble...

NeedaNewName · 20/10/2009 22:41

So whats your solution then ermintrude? I personally don;t have a problem with the current system whether you chage or keep you name - as long as its your dwecison. BTW my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I suggested NI numbers

LovelyKay · 20/10/2009 22:43

Sorry Needanewname no, not the certificate but somewhere in the paperwork (can't remember where - whole wedding thing horrible debacle as far as I was concerned would have far rather eloped...*)

Somewhere, possibly in the Register, I had to say what my dad did but not my mum. This was in 2003.

  • aaagh, , perhaps it is true and name changers ARE romantic people who like weddings and name-keepers are freaks with no desire to hold receptions or think about flowers in that way! Oh no....
stillstanding · 20/10/2009 22:44

LOL LovelyKay!

Think we should spend more time coming up with a list of imaginary acts of political resistance - so much easier than actually addressing any issues of real inequality

NeedaNewName · 20/10/2009 22:47

can I just ask where has anyone on this thread said that name keepers are freaks?

That is bizarre re the fathers occupation on the paperwork and believe me if I had seen that I would have objected and not filled it in - nothing to do wioth why I am getting married, or I'd have also oput in what my mum did!

ninagleams · 20/10/2009 22:48

stillstanding what I don't understand is why you think we can't do the small things as well as the big ones?

edam · 20/10/2009 22:48

Interesting what everyone's saying about the CRB still being rather confused about Ms - are all these examples within the past year? Because last time they were in the news for delaying checks for any uppity woman who dared to call herself Ms, there were a LOT of protests. I wrote to them and got a response basically saying OK, we give in... but it seems from this thread that nothing has actually changed?

ib · 20/10/2009 22:49

We went through this conversation with dh when I was pg. For the first 15 ys of my marriage, I was Ms myname, he was Mr hisname, no big deal.

When I was pg, neither of us felt that either of the surnames was appropriate, and double barrelling them was very complicated. We also didn't want to have to explain why ds had a different name from ours. So we both changed our names to a new one which is half his old one and half mine. That's now ds' surname.

So we kind of sidestepped the issue.

nooka · 20/10/2009 22:49

Well I expect that there are people that find your choice of name silly too, and that's probably why there are problems with using the name of your choice. It would be better if all sorts of name change were accepted and people (in general) were called what they choose to be called then we could move on without our own personal choices. And if over time more men changed, or fewer women did, then the choice would be more open I guess, and that would probably be a good thing.

NeedaNewName · 20/10/2009 22:50

Thinking on from the fathers occupation thing, I just want to add that had anyone told me that I HAD to take DH name there's no way on earth I would have done - there would have been no wedding. But the thing is it was my choice. Don't know how else to say it really.

differentnameforthis · 20/10/2009 22:51

Actually, what struck me reading more of this thread is that it is really no different to any other isssue.

BLW v Purees
Cloth v disposables
Co sleep v not
Mooncup v Tampons
Breast v Bottle
His name v your name

I personally don't give 2 hoots what other women decided to do re the above.

It doesn't matter! Do what you like, just don't think that your way is THE only way to do it & stop bloody criticizing those who decide to do something different to you!

There IS no right or wrong way, just the way that you decide you want to do it.

SolidGhoulBrass · 20/10/2009 22:51

Curiousitykilled: Well, a 'choice' that is inconvenient and annoying whichever side you come down on (either having to fanny around changing all your documentation, or spending the rest of your life wearily having to correct sexist morons who insist that you must be Mrs Whatever) is not an advantage that erases sexism and male privilege. It's like saying that the fact that women can choose between skirts and trousers somehow makes up for them being paid less than men, deprived of the right to control their own bodies, oh and repeatedly told that being lumbered with the housework is their biological destiny.

ermintrude13 · 20/10/2009 22:51

NeedaNewName I quite like the idea of making up a new name when people get married - tho genealogists would hate that! - or having a male line and a female line. People seem terribly bothered about having a 'family name' but surely that's just because we're used to saying 'the Smiths'. Couples could go double-barreled, but to prevent ending up with octuple-barreled names two generations hence, women could take the mother's surname and men the father's to make up their own new family name with components of each.

I'm not sold on one possibility but welcome the debate.

LovelyKay · 20/10/2009 22:54

Well you know, speaking as someone who has been oppressed in the workplace (specifically a car factory) with the fiendish methods of being catcalled all the time, ridiculed, made to take all minutes and the tea, I do know how the small things can build into bigger picture. Remember all the MPs laughter when Clare Short suggested that Page 3 etc was unacceptable? Well it may sound trivial but I have had to chair meetings in a room literally wallpapered with hardcore porn and believe me it takes the edge off the fun of corporate life.

On the other hand I am v white, v middle class and come from a long line of Empire oppressors who'd be first up against the wall come the revolution.

Lots of people are more oppressed than me but that doesn't mean I don't want a bit of change in the stuff that affects my life. Just because something isn't going to change the world and cure cancer doesn't mean we can't have a chat about it.

Blimey there are whole treads on this site dedicated to the best aspects of Centerparcs!

NeedaNewName · 20/10/2009 22:54

But why should women who want to change their name not so thats it easier for those that dont (I've even got myself confused with that one!) Thats one of the daftest things I've heard

MonstrousMerryHenry · 20/10/2009 22:55

I know an American couple who combined both of their names into one surname, which they both adopted - i.e. Jenkins and Thorpe became Mr + Mrs JenkinsThorpe.

I also know a man who adopted his wife's surname when they married.

The thing that really irritates the pants off me is when people refer to me as MrsDH'sFirstandSurnames (e.g. Mrs James Johnson). That implies a total loss of my own identity - I just become an appendage on my DH's soul. Makes me .