to not want to be defined by my marital status or surname?

[tealight]

To be not at all surprised that women still strive to achieve equality when some/many/most (???)women in marriage take on men?s surnames and (in marriage or not) agree to their children taking the man?s surname? That is the way it used to be when women and children were literally, in the eyes of the law, men?s property. That is the basis o the tradition for fathers to give their daughters away. And why should my marital status be used to define me every time I fill out my personal details? Miss, Mrs, Ms? Men just have Mr. Yet many of us still subscribe to this. Why why why?????

theroaringfire - I believe, if people are coming across as defensive about their choice to take their husband's name then it's because there been some attacks on this way of doing things. The OP is rather demeaning towards women who make this choice. I'm not sure how someone could change their name passively as you have to spend time and money phoning round and bringing evidence to various places.

I am a feminist.

I was proud to take DH's surname. I love him, we are joined together for life, we have kids - we all have the same name.

It doesn't define me, it's just a fact.

However, I do hate it when I get birthday cards addressed to Mrs DH's-initials-and-surname . My MIL does this even though she knows I hate it!

But I wanted me, my husband and kids to all have the same name and that is why I changed it.

Thank you still standing

Am just surprised that there are more people for changing names than against actually, so would like to hear from a few men please. Not meant to be patronising. As for being embarrassed, recall reading recently piece in a magazine where somebody was reflecting on an article they had written themselves explaining why they had changed their name and all the same kinds of reasoning was put forth as people here, and then they had reflected, regretted and were ultimately embarrassed that they had bought into the romantic notions they thought it represented. Or something like that. Wish could remember who it was.

I changed my surname. I have a very unusual first name, and that's where I get my identity from. I don't often use my surname to be honest (ie when I introduce myself I only use my first name), and I work in a world where people generally use first names professionally. I got married relatively young (25 or so) so my career hadn't got established yet, so I didn't really have a "professional" name as yet (was still in my very junior first job). I don't much like the look of double-barreled names, and really that's only going to work for one generation in any case. In my case my dh's family name is only two letters different from mine, so it would have looked silly really to have had both of them (and I already have two middle names, so adding another woudl have been a PIT). Finally dh's name is slightly more interesting and unusual than my old surname.

In the end though, I don't feel defined by my marital status or my surname, so I don't see either as being a big issue. If you do clearly it is annoying that things are in general not set up for you to express that very well. I have never received post etc to Mrs dh's first and last name, and would be very annoyed if I did. I don't think such terminology is used very much any more.

Oh, and I am a feminist. I am the one in our family with a career, and dh is a SAHD. I do think that there are more important things than surnames to get worried about on the equality front, but then I guess I've chosen not to fight that particular battle.

roaringfire - what a patronising post.

'Out of small acorns...'

Why do people all seem to think that the status quo is that a woman takes her husband's name, and that she is putting herself out to make some crazy point if she doesn't?

If your name automatically changed when you signed the register, then maybe. But it doesn't. You have to write - with original documents - to everyone. You have to reapply for your passport, essentially, and pay a fee, but it only lasts the remaining time on your old one - what a rip-off. This process has to happen many times - with your bank, your driving licence, any professional ID you have, ownership documents for any major items you own, memberships of associations, etc etc etc. This takes time, work, and money. It falls to the woman to do it all, naturally, yet no one acknowledges it as administrative labour (women's work not acknowledged, shocker). This drives me NUTS - it is not those who don't bother who have some kind of bee in their bonnet, it is those who have the energy and will to jump through all those silly administrative hoops.

I consider myself as much a feminist as anyone and I have never found being a woman a barrier to anything in life. I also disagree that we live in a patriarchal society. IME there is equality of opportunity and the reason that men dominate at the top of many professions is that women simply don't want to be there, especially post-kids when you have a new sense of perspective.

Turning to the change of name issue, I did so quite willingly as ultimately, on issues like this, I just think it is easier to conform and that the pursuit of principle can be utterly self-defeating, when society in general regard you as a militant nutter and it makes things awkward for children. Being Mrs and having my dad give me away has never stopped me achieving anything.

Changing my name had nothing to do with romance, just practicality - can't see how I would be embarrassed by it.

roaring - are there more for changing than there are against changing? I thought there were more against women being allowed to change and some pro choice and none who said women should change their names.

Not sure you'll get too many men on MN but abetadad posted around page 3 or 4.

I'm not sure it is very reliable to judge all women making the same choice by one woman.

Everytime someone called me Mrs C I thought they were talking about my MiL. Am happy being Dr C though, largely because my "maiden" name was also conferred on me by a patriarchal society, and I didn't really like it anyway...

why is it patronising?? to make any sort of change somebody has to start somewhere, so one small thing, which most people seem to think this is, changes and then something else, etc etc.

Vezzie, once you sign the register you are entitled to be called "Mrs DH's-name". You don't actually have to do anything else, although obviously if you want your bank account and passport etc in your new name then yes you have to make a few phone calls and go show your marriage certificate at your bank. I didn't change my name on many things, I just let them fade away eg credit cards and applied for new things in my new name. So it is not actually that big a deal.

Yep, absolutely no romance involved in my decision either. Don't really do romance, me.

Oh, and the only time I have ever really thought about my surname after I got married was when dh and I separated (after 10 years of marriage), when if I thought about it I felt a little pain. But by then my surname was part of my professional name, and to have reverted to my maiden name would have felt very odd, as it seems very much my parents, grandparents and paternal relations name to me now. If we had stayed separated, or divorced I'm not totally sure what I would have chosen to do, although as I have two children I doubt very much that I would have made a change, as I think they woudl have found that upsetting. Certainly my experience of friends that went through family break ups, or are part of blended families is that surnames are much much more important to them than they are to me.

I don't think that we live in a patriarchal society any longer.Even things like succession to the monarchy will change-they just take time.
I suppose that my identity isn't bound up with my name and so I fail to see why people get upset about it. I never use my surname unless I have to. I am onto my third but I equally answer to the other 2 without thought. I was at a wedding recently where I hadn't seen some people since I was at school. Several asked if I was xxxx(maiden name) I just said that I was, I didn't even think of telling them my new name. If anyone phoned up about my DS1 and called Mrs(his surname) I just said 'yes'.
I changed my name because I love DH and as someone said earlier-if we were involved in a disaster I would like us listed as a unit. DS1 has kept his father's name, since he was too young to remember him I think it very important and I wouldn't like an insensitive DIL to come along and think it didn't matter.

Roaringfire: "...those that have changed their names, are any of you a little bit embarrassed by your decision, hence the very vociferous defences being posted? Or any of you never see it as an issue before and now beginning to wonder at your 'decision' when in fact it might have automatic pilot. Botbot, from small acorns grow....."

What is patronising? Well, suggesting that those of us who changed our names might never have considered before whether that was the right thing to do - we have all just been led by men and not thought for ourselves?

You ask whether this thread has made us look at our 'decision' - the quote marks suggest it can't possibly have been out decision at all and perhaps we were on automatic pilot.

What a load of nonsense.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say roaringfire? Are you saying that women who change their family name will gradually see their equality with their partner eroded? Is that your experience?

No one has actually answered how the fact that women are entitled to a choice in surname and prefix after marriage whilst men are not is proof of any kind of oppression of women?

The best offered up was from professor layton who said essentially (correct if wrong) that it's not much of a choice if people don't respect it.

My response was other people getting it worng doesn't change the fact the choice is available to women where it isn't to men.

manicmother...think you have it there. I think it is easier to conform as there are bigger battles to be won and many worries which transcend this. But it does depress me a little. .

I'm a Ms and didn't change my name on marriage - was surprised though that I did briefly consider it (he has a great name) but realised I could find it bugged me forever AND would keep forgetting. Looks bad forgetting ones own name in shops etc... So, I am a card-carrying feminist. It matters to me what my name is and I see it in a context. Most people I know went the conventional route of MRSNewHusband but I know about 6 people who didn't so am not entirely alone. However do not 'look down' on trad naming people as apart from anything that is most of the people I know. Magnanimous men often say they don't mind at all if their wives keep their 'maiden names' but so far I have met exactly one man who changed his...

When expecting Baby no.1 DH & I agreed that if was a girl then it and subsequent children would have my name. If a boy then DHs name. Just to make it about 50/50 and good for betting en famille! So DD born and has his surname as middle name and mine as her surname. Badoom, job done (aside from literally 20 minutes with both of us insisting to registrar that this was our choice. She was having none of it but we ground her down in the end.)

The thing that gets me, like OP and others is why this, my decision, is all such a problem to other people? One RN nursery, despite getting all the forms (stating that DD is called dd dhname MYNAME) managed all kinds of mad combinations except the right one. Wouldn't matter with many jobs but DH is in Navy and there was a very serious risk at one point that Lt Myname (who does exist) might be called back from overseas in an emergency! Oops. Similarly all appear to think I'm joking when I specify Ms as a title.

If I am supposed to respect the right of some women to change their name why on earth can't people respect my right not to?

I think there's several elements within the name changers which are not being addressed either. People who change change to various degrees, some get new passports, bank accounts and change on all their bills, some would just prefer to be called 'mrs x' and don't change anything official. I maintain that having the choice is a good thing for women, something men are missing out on.

neenz, explained that had read an article of somebody, ok, just one person, and was wondering if it was completely out of kilter with the general concencus, which it seems to be. It kicked up a storm when it was published too. Darn who was it???????

Curiosity, whilst I understand that in your RL this does seem to be an issue and you're right it shouldn't be, I also cannot understand why some people don't get it.

My only problem is this thread, no-one on here has a problem with you not channging your name but there are plenty of others that have a problem with me changing my name. Thats why I'm so worked up!

stillstanding and various others - re: the chattel issue. Of course we're not chattels. That's why we should move away from the system which was in use when women were just that.

Why do some name-changing posters think they have to say they love their DHs as though
a) changing one's name is a sign of love (in which case don't their DH's love them? ) and
b) that not name changing means a woman clearly doesn't love her man enough.

Others are simply uncomfortable with a feminist dialectic and feel they have to make silly remarks about Women's Studies. Our naming systems are prescriptive as well as descriptive. Just because feminist academics twigged this is not reason to dismiss it.

Re: genealogy - the present system does not allow for each searches of the female side. Unless you know the name of the man a woman marries they as good as disappear from records and you can only follow male lines.

Of course our 'maiden' names are our father's names. That's why we need to come up with a better, fairer solution.

ps becky love you too xx