to not want to be defined by my marital status or surname?

[tealight]

To be not at all surprised that women still strive to achieve equality when some/many/most (???)women in marriage take on men?s surnames and (in marriage or not) agree to their children taking the man?s surname? That is the way it used to be when women and children were literally, in the eyes of the law, men?s property. That is the basis o the tradition for fathers to give their daughters away. And why should my marital status be used to define me every time I fill out my personal details? Miss, Mrs, Ms? Men just have Mr. Yet many of us still subscribe to this. Why why why?????

Aaah. I see that as living in a sexist society but not necessarily a patriarchal one.

Get a grip people.

Why is it always the woman who choose to not change their name that bang on about this? Is this really the biggest thing you have to worry about? Is everything in your life so perfect because you've kept your given name or come up with an entirely new one that you feel you must convert us poor little ladies? Honestly you sound like a bunch of bored A level students!

There are bigger issues re equality for women than a fucking name. Someone here commented on how she regretted changing it, she changed it back - good for you.

wahwah - lol It might not give you much insight, I only offered some unexplained titbits. Someone told me not to if I didn't want it to be used against me or summat...

...and I know of cases where the woman was given such a hard time for even suggesitng that she keep her name, or DCs have her name or have it double barrelled that they capitulated for a quiet life and then tried to attach some romantic notion to it or argue or its easier, when it actual fact DP/DH did not wish to be emasclated or ridiculed down the pub...

Couldn't wait to get shot of my maiden name.
Couldn't care less what anyone thinks.
I am not defined by my surname nor my marital status any more than I am defined by my first name(s) or any of the nicknames I use.

tealight - that is an example of a weak minded individual though. If you don't take responsibility for your choices you can't blame it on society. Perhaps these women did take responsibility for their choice. Maybe they are happier capitulating than facing a life of arguments - that is actually a valid choice.

Curiosity has to be up for quote of the week with that one!!!

Wahwah - yes DH and I discussed the names, I was had a different surname from my parents and didn;t like it so wanted to have the same family name, we discussed DH taking myu name but to be honest I didn;t like my name and couldn;t wait to get rid of it. Didn;t want to choose a new name either as I liked DH name so no problem.

I also feel that if a woman chooses to keep her own name, or double barrel the names, come up with an entirely new name or go with the Ms option that is her choice and I would totally defend that choice. I would urge them to keep reminding the in laws, friends and anyone else that this is their name and to stop using the other names as that person doesn;t exist.

However taking my DH name is my choice so butt out of it and leave me alone

I think your point about "strong feminist identity" is an interesting one wahwah. I am a feminist. And when I was younger, I did have a strong feminist identity. And when I was younger, I didn't think that I would change my family name when I got married. But when I did get married, I was certianly planning children pretty smartish, and so issues regarding my family identity took the fore. For me, my family having the same name was very important as I grew up (adopted by non-bio father when I was 5, two subsequent siblings who I cannot think of as half siblings). And I transferred that to my own family.

Of course DH and I talked about it. His surname is important in his identity (for patriarchal reasons ), and while he was perfectly happy for me to call myself whatever I chose, he would be reluctant to change his name. For me it was less the name, and more than family having one name that was important. So I changed.

If you had told my 20 year old self that I would do that...

Identities can change I suppose. Or at least certain facets of them are foregrounded in different situations.

If you don't like the thread get off it! Plenty more trivial stuff on other threads to look at. I posted the issue because I'd had it yesterday with a sales person who called me Mrs and DP's surname. I said my name is actually 'Captain' and gave my surname and poor man could hardly contain his shock.

...and in relation to bigger issue, presumably you all spend your time fighting the good fight against war and famine and not worrying about the little things!

Yes, it's not exactly up there with female genital mutilation for example, but surely it's worth more thought than insults about A level students? I don't congratulate myself on my raised consciousness (as if I even have one) but it was something that I gave some thought to as a very young woman and I don't think it was unimportant at all.

Phew, lots of posts jut came up. Thanks for the explanations, I found them very interesting and I certainly wouldn't take issue with anyone's individual choice, it's really not my business.

Not sure who you're directing that at, tealight, but you're allowed to be on a thread if you think it's trivial. Sometimes people need perspective.

YANBU

I stuck it out for a few years, but it drove me mad and I ended up taking his name. Airports - hassle. Banks and cheques - hassle, Mortgage - hassle, school - hassle. I couldnt be arsed to keep explaining that yes I was married, Yes i was mr. M's wife but I was miss S. Nobody got it.

Now I still havent changed my driving licence or my passport because I dont believe in paying a fee do change my name.

I'm a Ms. I'm getting married in a couple of weeks and will still be a Ms. However, I will be taking his name. Not because I'm not a feminist (I certainly am one and get very annoyed with anyone who says they aren't), not because I want to surrender myself to him, but because I really quite fancy having a different name. For a change. For a laugh, even. I get to practice a new signature, and I'm going from an unusual name that I constantly, wearily have to spell out to people, to a fairly common one that's nice and easy to spell. Call me frivolous, but I really don't see it as a big deal. As someone said further up the thread, there are many, many more important equality issues that need sorting out.

Interesting post, FallenMadonna - I agree. People's identities are (obviously!) very personal things and the factors that influence them will be different for different people and will change over time. All very valid, no rights and wrongs.

But I must admit to being confused about this concept of a "strong feminist identity" ... Wahwah, what do you mean by that exactly? Are you suggesting that changing your name means that you can't be a feminist or have a strong feminist identity? I always think that people mean such different things when they refer to feminism/feminists and wonder if your definition is perhaps narrower than mine?

YANBU.

Liking this discussion. Would like to see a few more male points of view. Would also like to inflame the fire... those that have changed their names, are any of you a little bit embarrassed by your decision, hence the very vociferous defences being posted? Or any of you never see it as an issue before and now beginning to wonder at your 'decision' when in fact it might have automatic pilot. Botbot, from small acorns grow.....

Alysonpeaches, I know what you mean re the hassle. Half my stuff is in my married name, half in my maiden name. Out of sheer laziness rather than any design or purpose. Passport and driving licence in my maiden name. Really don't have a clue what my legal name is?? Presumably my maiden name because of passport but if I showed my marriage certificate then my married name would pass muster? What a pickle

wahwah - yes it is something to think about and as I said I woudl defend your right to be called whatever you choose, what pisses me off is that some people on here are having a go at me for changing my name to that of my DH - my choice, my decision, my name to do what the hell I want to.

Someone mentioned earlier that by not becoming a Ms or keeping my given name I am letting down the sisterhood - what a load of shit. So I can;t change my name to (apparently) suit a man but I must keep my original name to suit a woman - where the fuck is the progress in that?!

I'm sorry if you took offence at my A level student comment but that is exactly what this arguement sounds like.

Surely the wonderful thing about living in this century and this country is that we have a choice. I do not have a go at you for your choice but its OK for you to have a go at mine? I think not.

And whilst I don;t want to change the arguement here but we (women) are doing it again. You have one lot who choose to do things one way telling others who choose to live a different way that they are wrong (SAHM, BF, etc etc)

Good for you botbot and good luck on your wedding day - have fun!

roaringfire - interesing comment - why would I be embarrassed?

I should have pointed out that DP is not bothered one way or the other - he really doesn't mind what my name is. In fact I think he's a bit surprised that I want to change it.

As for regretting it in the future - ask me in a year's time, I may have changed it back!

Rather patronising post, roaringfire. Strong arguments have been posted for both sides, no?

I'm not embarassed by my choice. I'm interested in why I made it, in a self reflective kind of way, because I think my younger self would be at the choice I made. But then I did see it as an issue at the time too...

thanks NeedaNewName

Going through this thread I can't find a single name-changer who has criticised non-name-changers. All supported the right to choose. The same cannot be said of non-name-changers - some (but not all) of whom have been incredibly critical and obtuse. This is my RL experience too and I really don't get it.