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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want to be defined by my marital status or surname?

811 replies

tealight · 19/10/2009 23:05

To be not at all surprised that women still strive to achieve equality when some/many/most (???)women in marriage take on men?s surnames and (in marriage or not) agree to their children taking the man?s surname? That is the way it used to be when women and children were literally, in the eyes of the law, men?s property. That is the basis o the tradition for fathers to give their daughters away. And why should my marital status be used to define me every time I fill out my personal details? Miss, Mrs, Ms? Men just have Mr. Yet many of us still subscribe to this. Why why why?????

OP posts:
wahwah · 20/10/2009 20:09

Agree it's not the biggest issue facing women, but when taking your husband's name is the default position for most women, it makes those of us who do something different stand out.

As a feminist child I decided that I wouldn't change my name if I ever got married. When I met the man I wanted to marry, he knew this and didn't care for one second. I think that's a tiny part of why I knew he was marriage material. I'm not knocking other people's choices, but the only oher people I know who have do e the same thing also have strong feminist identities and secure partners. I am interested to hear why people who have both o these things chose different path.

Original poster
tealight · 20/10/2009 20:24

I am the OP and there was no intention of blaming women who do change their name for the persistence of inequality. Or, indeed, of blaming some men for expecting it or not questioning it, or saying no. I think some traditions perpetuate inequality as they are based on a patriarchal society. Which, frankly, we do still live in. beckybrook posted a link to an very well written article about the issue.

OP posts:
Original poster
tealight · 20/10/2009 20:26

oops beckybook Got your name wrong, not sure how I'd link into that article again?

OP posts:
Fizzfiend · 20/10/2009 20:27

Hate being Mrs... makes me feel old and boring...(I may be old but not boring...!) Feel like inventing something like Viscountess just to piss people off...

Malificence · 20/10/2009 20:29

I an absolutely proud to be a Mrs and have my husbands name - what the hell is the problem with it?
Aren't there far more important issues in life to get het up about, it's quite frankly ridiculous.
If some women are so insecure they think they will lose their identity by being a Mrs, that's very sad indeed.

pranma · 20/10/2009 20:30

I think the choice for me was that we are a family and a surname is one way of identifying that family.To me it truly doesnt matter-it seems so trivial a thing to worry about.I am fortunate in a close loving marriage of equals and I believe strongly in equality of the sexes.We are free to choose the surname we feel at ease with-the traditional way suits me and I truly hate and detest the ugly Ms which is as my grandad would have said,'neither nowt nor summat.'

stillstanding · 20/10/2009 20:32

Sorry, tealight, only realised you were the OP after I posted.

I think the sentence "AIBU To be not at all surprised that women still strive to achieve equality when some/many/most (???)women in marriage take on men?s surnames and (in marriage or not) agree to their children taking the man?s surname?" does imply that blame for inequality should attach to those women who change their names.

For the reasons I've highlighted above I don't think that this is a tradition that perpetuates inequality. I'm not sure that right now I live in a patriarchal society but appreciate that it used to be one and that the transition is a gradual one still in progress so some parts of society probably do live in one.

PeachesMcLean · 20/10/2009 20:33

Oooh crikey, there's nothing like a good misreading is there.

Can I just clarify please re IDIOTS

My reference to "idiots" was in response to SGB's incident with the CRB. They were clearly being idiots.

I do not give too hoots about what names people take after their marriage. As I said, I don't get wound up by these things.

But then, who reads these threads properly.

curiositykilled · 20/10/2009 20:35

A woman is allowed to choose her name and her prefix much more easily after marriage, men have to have the same prefix throughout life and have to pay to change their name on marriage.

I can't see how being the gender that has the choice makes us the gender that is suffering inequality and none of the feminists have yet offered a response to this point. Women have a lot more choice in all these issues. Is this really something to complain about?

ProfessorLaytonIsMyZombieSlave · 20/10/2009 20:45

But do we actually have a choice, if we aren't called by the title and name we choose? If the CRB, which is a governmental or quasi-governmental body, tells us that we can't be "Ms" unless we are divorced, or friends refer to us as Mrs DHname "because everyone changes their name" and if we say anything about it we are being picky and unreasonable and clearly don't have enough to worry about? On that count, DH could easily "choose" to change his prefix and name and have the government refuse to use it and friends ignore it. Whoo for choice.

BeckyBook · 20/10/2009 20:47

Hi tealight
Here is the article:
Why do some wives still change their names?

curiositykilled · 20/10/2009 20:50

Clearly, a woman's choice is more supported than a man's in this country. You have the choice, you make the choice, it doesn't matter too much what other people think of the choice. If the CRB tell you you 'can't be Ms' they are just wrong if you are Ms. It's no different to someone saying 'you can't be ds's mum you look too young' e.t.c. doesn't mean you are suddenly not your son's mother does it?

stillstanding · 20/10/2009 20:51

I think women do have a choice, Professor - some people clearly just need educating.

Am to hear that the CRB takes this view - all the forms I fill in (so far as I remember anyway) have the Ms option and can't believe the CRB isn't up to date. Friends who take this view also need an education - phenomenally rude to not call a person by whatever name they choose.

wahwah · 20/10/2009 20:52

Interesting article.

So, those of you who chose to change your name (even though it's clearly a very trivial issue for some), was it after a full discussion with a husband to be, who honestly didn't care if you took his name and offered to change his or take a new one?

curiositykilled · 20/10/2009 20:56

In the immortal words of Billie Piper "because we want to!"

wahwah · 20/10/2009 20:57

Now there's a song!

wahwah · 20/10/2009 20:58

But, marvellous songs aside, what made you want to? Why did your DH not insist on taking yours/creating a new name/double barrelling?

TheFowlAndThePussycat · 20/10/2009 20:58

Yes piscesmoon as you say, it seemed very disrespectful to me to suggest that our dds have my name given that dh's dad died so young. It would seem to cut him out somehow.

I also totally agree with joinscotland that it doesn't really matter what you do as long as it's a considered decision.

curiositykilled · 20/10/2009 20:59

That's all that matters, we are women, we have the choice. We can revel in the choice, we can make use of it or not as we see fit, trivialise it, over-emphasise it's importance, whatever we like because we have the freedom to do it.

MonstrousMerryHenry · 20/10/2009 20:59

I am married, but kept both names [greedy emoticon] - mainly because I have a funky maiden name which I didn't want to part with. My Dad (excessively old-fashioned) was hilarious: "You must have a very understanding DS if he allows you to keep your name," ROFLROFL - as if 'allows' ever came into our marriage!

DS has same double-barrelled surname as mine - why not, since he 'belongs' to each of us?

I don't get that whole Ms/Mrs/Miss thing, it is archaic, isn't it? I usually go by Mrs, but am now tempted to change to Ms just to help change the prevailing culture by normalising it.

What I find even more odd is when friends who are unmarried give their children their male DP's name rather than double-barrelling. Surely there's no long-standing tradition for cohabiters (sp?) that dictates that they should follow the out-of-date pattern of married couples?

stillstanding · 20/10/2009 20:59

That is one of the silliest articles I've read. I have now read it twice and still can't find her actual argument amongst all the name-calling ...

Also ROFL at the "feminist" who writes "How can a woman who has handed over her kid to be cared for by someone else while she has pursued her dreams with little or no thought to what the child needs or wants be described as a supermum?". I mean, seriously?!

curiositykilled · 20/10/2009 21:02

wahwah - I would like to explain my decision because I think that you are genuinely curious but back a few pages on the thread I offered up some small reasons for my choices and they were twisted beyond all recognition and added to by another poster. I'm a bit loathe for that to happen again TBH. I'm not sure anyone's reasons for their choice really matter anyway. Just having the choice is what's important in my mind.

Original poster
tealight · 20/10/2009 21:02

Every time I see one of those photocalls for heads of state and see male majority I am reminded that sadly we do still in a patriarchal society.

OP posts:
jmontan27 · 20/10/2009 21:04

Completely agree with the OP. I was always adament that I was not going to change my name if I got married (as did not want to perpetuate patriarchal tradition), but this has not registered/been understood by most family members (especially on dh's side) who persistently address mail to me as "Mrs dh's initial followed by dh's surname." Even after constant explaining to mother-in-law, she always says, "yes, but legally you must have the same surname as dh", despite the fact I signed the marriage register in my own name and have no documentation with anything but my own surname on it.

After all, marriage is a merger not a takeover .

With regard to dc's, we decided that any ds's would take dh's surname and dd's would take my surname. In the event, we have 3 ds's, but I still inserted my surmame onto ds2's birth certificate.

wahwah · 20/10/2009 21:06

Fair enough, Curiosity, I haven't trawled through all the posts, but I'll go and have a look. Anyone who quotes Billy Piper has got to have some very interesting reasons!