to phone this boys parents

[biggirlsdontcry]

ds's friend (11yrs) has just called in for ds , he had a pellet gun with him & pointed it at me when i answered the door i warned him not to shoot it as those guns are dangerous , when i turned to call ds the boy shot the gun at my arm , it didn't hurt much but i got annoyed at his cheek & told him " how dare he etc & i would ring his mum , he then pointed it up close into my face , i shut the hall door on him & he hung around outside for a few minutes aiming it at the windows of my house & calling ds names wtf .
should i phone his mum or just let it go .

Msspent - they don't just live that way to avoid paying taxes - it's their way of living.

I was about to report teetherings post korma and cherryblossoms. Is it better to leave this thread so people with genuinely wrong assumptions ask questions or get shot of it as its acually sickening to read some of it? I was meant to be asleep hours ago and am too riled up now

Cherry and Korma. Why have it removed? I find that really annoying actually. People hear something they don't like or don't agree with so they want it removed.

If you don't agree then ignore other peoples own opinions read and accept we all think differently and post your own opinions. It makes for an interesting discussion!

Msspent a member of the travelling community who decides to accept a rented house would still count themselves a traveller as they dont lose their cultural heritage or ethnic background if they stop physically travelling.

Sorry about thinking that the taxes was the reasoning for liiving like that, i don't even know why I thought that tbh.

But the point of my post wasn't why travellers live like that, but the fact that they aren't actually travellers because they live in a rented house. So judging them on their background, if their parents had been travellers, would be predudicing them for something that isn't in their control IYSWIM?

Hando dont you think there is a difference between disagreeing and the level of hatred towards travellers that has been expressed in some of the posts here?

Oh, I see. I am a bit confused by the concept tbh. Do travellers class themselves as a whole different race then? Or is it a bit more like a girl from London might call herself a Londener even if she has moved away from London (IYSWIM?)

But anyway, there are good'uns and bad'uns from all walks of life, we shouldn't judge someone because of something another person did. that would be like tarring all austrians with the same brush as hitler...

More of a whole different ethnic group (race is different and has more of a biological basis) Different culture, beliefs, norms, differnt history going back centuries. Different sense of ancestry.

Blessed if I know.

On the one hand, the OP probably doesn't deserve to get her thread pulled.

And I guess the comments are challenged.

On the other, the comments are still standing and by still standing, there is a chance that it reads as endorsement of those comments.

I don't like to think of adding/contributing to a climate of hatred against travellers. I'm not averse to censorship, myself. But the general leaning of mn is towards openness and debate.

So, two minds.

Hando - The arguments in favour of having it pulled are many and various.

One argument against; we never operate in a completely censorship-free environment; there is always a premiss about what is completely unacceptable. So, if you have certain comments in a public space, even debating them, they are, at least, partially acceptable.

Even debating whether something is acceptable or not allows it to the edge of the "possibly-acceptable", rather than "strictly-unacceptable".

So, for example, if there was a BBC debate, chaired by David Dimbleby, seriously discussing the proposition "Cherryblossoms should be allowed to ritually sacrifice her children", it would be moving that proposition to the edge of the "possibly-acceptable". When, in fact, it is wholly unacceptable.

Sorry - post was mainly to Claudia.

That last bit should read "one argument in favour of getting the thread pulled" - just because you asked.

And I'm sorry if it's a bit wobbly in the expression dept. but it's late ... .

Ok Cherryblossoms OP certainly wasnt responsible for the ugliness that emerged here. She was in no way predjucial and would probably be horrified at whats happened to her thread if she hadnt had the good sense to be presumably sound asleep by now.

I did just report the 23.25 post by teethering on the grounds of the comment about children which is sickening.

And yes the comments are challenged and that maybe opens up peoples minds more but yes it does make for some downright distressing reading. I guess the distressing thing is that some posters here actually think and believe these things in the first place, and they believe them whether the thread gets pulled or not. As Korma said its possibly better to let people see (and hope some on reflection come back and delete their own posts?)

It gets pulled and no-one tends to know why usually so it doesnt send much of a message.

no basically i dont know if it should go or not yet either

I am sorry I have offended so many, and I do understand your disgust. If I didn't live amongst these people, and seen the behavior all my life I would be as outraged as you are.

I would invite anyone to live a week where I live and try to justify the way of life chosen by Irish travellers. They are given every help, and they chose not to take it.

Over half of Irish Travellers don't live past the age of 39. It is a completely different way of life to ours.

Again I am sorry to offend, but it is my opinion.

Claudia - I think your posts have been really informative. Which is, I guess, another reason for letting it stand.

Hando - Another reason for pulling the thread, which is worth mentioning, is that speech is an act, with effects, on real people. And those effects can be negative; ranging from hurt to creating a climate in which people are moved to murder.

claudialyman - I am sorry you find my posts so offensive, but these children are obviously in-bred. I know it is disgusting, crass and mostly heartbreaking to refer to any child like this, but it is an obvious physical feature of most of them. The poor kids haven't a hope.

Claudialyman - "Teethering Irish Travellers are recognised as one of Irelands largest ethnic minorities."

That is actually in Britain, in Ireland they are considered a social group, not an ethnic minority.

Also, you do realise that in ROI travellers are not legally classed as an ethnic group? So in Ireland (where teetering is) it is not racist to say derogatory things about travellers.

The 39 years bit is also right, although I haven't quite got my head around what relevence that is to this thread.

Irish Travellers do have a terrible mortality rate. It has been established that one of the huge contibuters to the poor health within this group is the way that they are socially and economically excluded from irish society. Another big factor is the unrelenting stress of living amongst hostility and discrimination on a day-to-day basis.

They have virtually no access to decision-making. There is indeed a massive need for affirmative action to overcome some of the obstacles that are in the way of Travellers accessing health and other services that settled people take for granted.

It is not a case of "They are given every help, and they chose not to take it." The Irish Government decided on a policy of basically assimilating travellers and make them more like the majority, to suit the majority needs, overriding their culture and trying to integrate them into settled culture. They formed this policy without input from travllers or regard for their seperate culture and history. Is it any wonder the policy fails?

Claudialyman - Do you live in Ireland? Whilst I have absolutely no idea if what teetering says is true or if she is just an internet stranger making up random things (sorry teetering, but you could be) you do not know what it is like for her where she lives unless you have lived there too?

"It has been established that one of the huge contibuters to the poor health within this group is the way that they are socially and economically excluded from irish society. Another big factor is the unrelenting stress of living amongst hostility and discrimination on a day-to-day basis"

Lol, tbh. Stress? Tell me about it. Try weaving your way past the dogs, burnt out cars, kids, absolutely unaware (I hope) people standing in the middle of the street while you try to drive out of your road. Kids calling you a fucking whore, while Grandad looks on fondly. If you say a word you car is burnt out. Or worse.

@ Hando, thanks for giving me the benefit of doubt. I understand it sounds outrageous, but it is unfortunately fact.

Teetering. Are you in SW Ireland?

It does sound awful that you have to live like that and must be really stressful for you and the kids Is it possible for you to move?

Teetering. I belive you. I don't think you made any of that up.

Ethnicity is a cultural phenomenom. Irish travellers are indigenous to Ireland but they have a distinct ethnic culture, which they have fought to keep and I, also Irish, recognise and acknowledge them as a distinct ethnic group.

Hando are you trying to say its alright for Irish settled people to speak in such derogatory terms about another group because both groups are Irish? Or just that you think its not racist but predjucial?

Thanks Hando, I am trying to get out of here, but so is everyone else, and nobody will move into the estate because of the travellers, so I'm stuck I guess.

Claudia - walk a day in my shoes. Seriously.