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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find this article about Stephen Gately's death utterly vile and callous?

213 replies

BiteOfFun · 16/10/2009 13:37

Quelle surprise- it's in the Daily Hate, and surely represents a new low? What a nasty piece of writing- shame on you, Jan Moir!

OP posts:
SCARYspicemonster · 19/10/2009 22:00

Sorry notanumber - can't be arsed to argue with you any more. Think I've made my position very clear. G'night

notanumber · 19/10/2009 22:02

Fair enough. A shame, as it was interesting.

TheShriekingHarpy · 20/10/2009 09:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

frostyfingers · 20/10/2009 09:30

Press Complaints Commission have received a massive number of complaints about this article and are looking into it. Let's hope they do something about it.

FleeBee · 20/10/2009 13:19

Only just got into this as been offline for a while.

Notanumber I've been reading your posts with as I think you've made lots of interesting points in this discussion. I'd like to ask a question, genuinely and without malice as I'd like to know your opinion.

You mentioned waaaay back that you don't think there should be calls for Moir to lose her job as she was stating her opinions in her column, regardless as to how unpleasant that opinion was. It made me think of other examples where people in the public eye have expressed an opinion that has caused major offence, and more often than not that person has been asked to resign or sacked.

I'm thinking notably about Glenn Hoddle the former England manager and his views on reincarnation, Ron Atkinson and a racist remark which he believed were made off-air or Carol Thatcher with a conversation within a private group.

The above were removed from their position with quite a public outcry at the time, do you think this should be a similar situation or not?

notanumber · 20/10/2009 14:26

What an interesting question, Fleebee.

Almost certainly, Thatcher and Atkinson would have signed a contract which bound them to uphold the ethos and reputation of the BBC.

Given the outrage that their remarks caused - and the clearly stated position of their employers on issues of race - it would have been very very difficult for either of them to argue that they had not broken their contract.

Had they not signed such a thing, I would suggest that it would have been possible for them to have made a case for unfair dismissal citing the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in which "everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference, and impart information and ideas through any media regardless of frontiers". (Atkinson less so, as his remark - though intended to be private - was transmitted therefore he was representing the BBC at the time and not himself as a private individual.)

So there is the right to freedom of speech and there are the contractual laws which you have agreed to and are bound to adhere to. It's a tricky balance, isn't it?

However, the difference between Thatcher and Moir is that Moir's opinion is a fundamental part of her job. It is her job to have an opinion. Furthermore, it is her job to have an edgy and controversial one. I would wager that Moir has no such contract.

It would strike me as terribly unjust for someone who was employed to spout controversial viewpoints to suddenly be fired because this particular one is just a wee bit too controversial, despite the fact that she has stuck (in my view) to the professional guidelines laid out for her.

We as readers enter into a tacit agreement when we buy a publication that we are largely subscribing to the ethos of that publication (in the digital age this becomes a much foggier issue of course, as we no longer have to purchase news to read it).

I have said previously that I would be stupid to be shocked by seeing images of naked breasts in a copy of Playboy. That is why I don't buy it. But while it is legal for such images to be published, I have no right to stop others from buying it just because it would offend me if I bought it.

Therefore, if you buy The Guardian you are expecting the reports and features to be of a left-wing slant. If you buy the Daily mail you expect the reports and features to reflect a largely conservative and left-wing mindset. This doesn't mean that nothing inside it can offend you or that you do not have the right to state this if it does so.

But this is why we have vast numbers of publications in this country. Because we value the right to "?hold opinions without interference, and impart information and ideas through any media?"

*I am not a lawyer, so am fully prepared to be corrected on any of the legal issues I have just commented on.

notanumber · 20/10/2009 14:28

I've just re-read my last post and am that it's such a jumble.

I will be amazed if anyone managed to make head nor tail of it - apologies.

In my defence I am trying to get some work done and entertain a toddler at the same time, all on very little sleep!

notanumber · 20/10/2009 14:30

Oh, and I meant to say fleebee, thank you for raising such interesting points. What you have said has really made me think.

AitchTwoToTangOh · 21/10/2009 13:51

they're discussing this on r4 now. quite intereesting, much more easy-oasy about it than the 21,000 complainants.

Zuchu · 09/09/2019 20:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

GloGirl · 09/09/2019 20:49

What an odd zombie thread

Why 10 years later @Zuchu ? [Confused]

Rocketmanager · 09/09/2019 20:51

Slow day on mn @Zuchu, 10 year old thread?

NoSauce · 09/09/2019 20:53

I’m convinced there are zombie trolls on MN.

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