Is this a bit mean?

[upahill]

More of a ponder this one.
A week or so 8 women friends went out for a meal. Not everyone knew each other. Lots of different backgrounds. One of my friends is stoney broke but so looking forward to going out she sold some of her gold to go. Anyway, everyone was free to order whatever they wanted to drink whenever they wanted, we decided on no starters but shared popadoms and a main course. Everyone decided that we weren't going to have a sweet but some decided they wanted an Irish cofee or a ordinary coffee. Some decided they didn't want anything. No problem. Bill cameto £151 for 8 people.Someone said call it £20 each. We all got our purses out and twenty quid down. Even skint friend who said that was good, even two pregnant friends who had 1 soft drink all night. See where this is going? A well off acquantence suddenly says actually mine only came to £14.00. (she is so not broke and had plenty of cash on her) Everyone looks disgusted - she is oblivious to everyone being pissed off. I tried saying ' If you look at it as night out for £20, we have been here for 3 1/2 hours and had good service it's quite good value. Someone else said 'It's swings and roundabouts- next time your's might be more more expensive.'

Like I said no major issue but are we (the remander 7 of us) right to be a bit narked? Just a wonder. Thoughts please

It needs to be discussed before going if not a group of close friends.

As the person who orders starters, mains, desserts and can drink a bottle by myself I want to know ahead of time if other people are not up for that.

So if we are splitting bill and there are salad only eaters then I too will be a salad only eater and fill up later. Or if a table of salad eaters but not splitting bill then I can enjoy my dinner safe in the knowledge that no-one is going to get upset.

Mostly my friends are eaters so this doesn't come up!

Reminds me of a dinner years and years ago, with colleagues.

Towards the end of the meal, DFF (dear funny friend) asked the waiter for a glass of port. Next person along said "Good idea, I'll have a glass as well". Then someone opposite said "Me too". At which point DFF lost the plot and came out with the classic line "Well we can't all have one, cos the bill will be too expensive".

She never, ever, lived it down.

God this is such a WOMAN thing and I hate it. Having listened to friends whinging on about not having had any of the shared side orders and wanting to knock 70p off her share, I now make a point of clarifying at the beginning of the meal what we are doing. And I'll happily go with the flow of the majority. But to wait until the end and then make an issue of it is such a PITA. Do any blokes ever do this ? I think not.

I can't believe she actually opened her mouth and said anything considering no-one seemed opposed to paying £20

On occasion I have felt a little hard done by when out for a meal when the bill is split equally because I have driven & therefore had nothing to drink, unlike others who may have had quite a lot, but unless I had spoken up beforehand & asked how the bill was going to be sorted, I would keep my mouth shut & cough up.

For my 30th birthday back in Sept, I organised a big meal out for my family & DH's family. I said right from the beginning that each couple would have their own separate bill so that we only paid for what we had. I thought this was the fairest way as some people were driving & others weren't. DH's family tend to drink a lot more than mine too (cocktails & spirits etc), so it works out expensive. I didn't think it was fair for my teetotal Dad or my skint DB & SIL to cough up for my inlaws.

Should definitely be sorted beforehand to avoid any confusion or upset.

Therefore YANBU to think she was being a bit mean.

You can ask places to run a "bar tab" so that booze is totalled up separately from food and soft drinks.

As I do tend to drink my bills I think this is a good idea if you have a few non-drinkers.

Ok, sorting it before hand could work - except where people have a certain expectation... the majority here expected to split, the minority didn't both are acceptable ways to deal with a bill but neither side sorted it beforehand. You could equally say they were BU not to say up front as say she was. Is it her responsibility to raise it becasue she was a minority? Well how would she have known that? Or because her approach was less normal? Well it is clear that different people find different approaches normal - I expect she thought what she was doing was normal.

If you want it raised first fine but every person in the party had as much responsibility to do that as any other so using it as evidence of meaness does not really follow!

I go through this all the time with my family and friends. I don't drink wine, never order pudding or side dishes etc and usually end up paying roughly double what I ate and ordered.

I'm used to it now and I can afford it so I smile and get on with it, but it isn't fair.

As somebody else said, you don't expect your friends to cheerfully pay for your shopping in M&S as they're such good friends, so why expect them to pay for your food on a night out?

The thing is, I like and enjoy treating my friends, I like saying 'oh no, I'll get this, you get it next time' etc when there's two of us there. That way, friend can say 'thanks v much, I'll get it next time' and you both feel good.

Maybe I'm selfish but if I'm going to treat my friends en masse I'd at least like it to be recognised and said thank you for - not just 'ooh that was cheap wasn't it?' becuase the rest of the table have effectively subbed you.

I wouldnt mind paying a few extra pounds on a night out especially with close friends who are all generally ordering the same type/price things but hate splitting the bill on nights out with loads of couples who are just ordering as much as they want knowing that they dont have to probably pay the full amount iyswim.
I remember once going out with 5 other couples to a restaurant, we were not all close friends, two of the couples were another couples friends but we all seemed to be getting on, my DH and I didnt feel too good, we had a young baby and werent getting much sleep so we decided to drive and only have one soft drink each, we were a bit skint too (it was near xmas) so we only had cheap main courses, iirc DH was about£9 and mine about£14, anyway three of the other couples ordered starters, steak, desserts and two bottles of wine and guess what, they wanted to split the bill at the end . At bill time it was casually said "are we splitting the bill", i said no we havent had any wine, starters etc, the others looked at me like i was being tight but why should we have paid for there indulgence when we discussed only having something cheap because of our own budget.
If i would have paid what it was we would have paid nearly £30 more than our meal cost, which i wasnt prepared to do and if that makes me tight fisted and stingy then so be it.

My friends (who understand that I'm teetotal and broke) usually split the food and soft drinks bill, and split the alcoholic drinks bill separately. So everyone stumps up equally for food and soft drinks, and those who had wine stump up for their share of it. If they didn't do this I wouldn't go out in a group any more, just would be too anxious knowing that I might have to borrow money to pay my share every time they ordered another bottle!

I do get comments/funny looks from people - most people don't believe that I'm broke. I do wear designer clothes (either from Oxfam in posh areas, donated from posh friends or things I've had for 10-15 years), and have a bit of a posh accent (which I try to disguise!), and DH has his own company which people assume means that we earn heaps (he hasn't been able to afford to pay himself a living wage so far this year.)

I think that's completely different garlic when you would have had to fork out that much extra, but £6 ????!!

In the future I will probably say at the beginning of the night, "Is there anyone who wants to pay their own way or shall we split the bill?" and see what the general concensus is. That way, if any particular person wants to just pay for what they have, that is down to them. The rest of the bill can then be split between those who don't mind it being split.

When we were comfortably off I was always happy to split the bill, now we are totally skint so I don't go out with friends anymore. The last time I went with friends, one friend ordered 2 bottles of champagne and I was too embrassed to say that I didn't want to split the bill equally so now I just tell people that I can't afford to eat out.

I would always assume the bill would be split.
If I was on a tight budget, I would say so at the begining of the meal and ask if the others minded if I just paid for exactly what I order.
It is hard, because discussing money is always a bit akward and is especially so if the people involved have v differnt budgets.
Best to get your poisition clear up-front rather than bring the mood down at the end.
I have to say I've never been to a dinner where the bill wasn't just split (unless of course someone turned up for coffee at the end or something) am I unusual?

do you only ever go out with one set of friends bubba?

No! Which makes me wonder if I have left some people muttering under their breath about how I ordered the expensive wine and ate 2 of the canapes!

I always used to get pissed about this with work colleagues. One of them always ordered loads of drinks, had a starter and dessert and expected to split the bill (as I am a vegetarian and veggie meals are mostly a lot cheaper than steak dishes and a glass of coke can last me all night as I don't like fizzy drinks and don't drink alcohol or eat dessert) and I put up with it for a while as everyone else did and I did not want to seem tightfisted but when I was short of money I thought why the hell should I subsidise her meal and told her so!!

I do not think it's rude at all when other people take the piss whether you're loaded or not!!

Agree - income shouldn't even come into it. I could afford to subsidise others, but why should I?

I always do of course, but it makes me grrrr inside.

There have been some interesting opinions. As usual there seems no right way or wrong way but I've been thinking about the points raised and how I might do things different next time.

Here's my thoughts. 7 out of 8 of assumed the bill would be split. A big majority but next time no assuming! I can't resist the next sentance even though it's naff. Never assume because it makes an ass of u and me. ( I hate corporate speak as much as any one but it seemed somehow appropiate) [big grin]Oh well!

2nd The only really negative thing I have thought is that the lady in question ended up paying excatly her share while eveyone else paid a tip. But things get muddled up in the heat of the moment so never mind.

I don't think for one moment the lady in question is selfish or self centred -just used to doing things different.

I don't think I'm selfish or self centred either, like her been used to doing things a certain way.

When all is said and done it's not a major issue to me. It was a wonder on how people do things.

Just to clarify Duelling Fango.(post 13.34pm) one mate picks up the bill and says it's £151. Shall we call it 160 and everyone puts 20 in? Most of us at the far end of the table put £20 on the table and startd to walk away to get coats and carried on chatting away. Then mate who orgainsed it says 'hang on a sec x says she's only had £14.00's worth' so we all started to go back to table when orgainising mate puts her hand to back us off saying 'It's right - sorted.' That's when I found out yesterday that orgainising mate put in x's.
She said she didn't want to cause a scene as she goes to that restaurant several times a month so didn't want any embarrassment as she is well looked after there. She was also embarrassed because it was her mate and she had invited her.

I'm sure all of us would have thrown in a few more quid each so that no one lost out. It's flipping confusing to explain who said what without naming names and setting scenes!!! I still think it is swings and roundabouts for us lot as a group. I was £15 down on a meal out last year and it was my leaving do meal!! Sobbed my heart out all night!! (didn't really but looking at some comments perhaps I should have)

Thanks for your views

It depends. If I am out with close friends & we all have similar, we split. But I am teetotal, my DH not a big drinker. If we go out with people who have 3 beers before ordering, then wine, etc., then order 3 courses, I would suggest individual bills. I can't afford to pay £35 for a £15 meal.

7 out of 8 went along with it, but then you might find that 7 out of 8 would have gone along with everyone roughly working out their bill, adding a tip, then chucking it in the middle.

It isn't easy though. I had a lovely meal once, and put a generous tip in. The organiser's meal was slow to come (although still lovely) so she and one other made the decision to withhold the entire tip, which for 20 people, was reasonably substantial. She said it would buy a bottle of wine next time we went out. I was livid and refused to go the next time.

I agree with Mary. Had it been mentioned earlier more people might have opted to pay individually.

I've just had an email inviting me on to a Christmas works do where I will only know two or three people. It's at the same place as my original post was about. I now know what to expect and questions to ask before I get there!!

Furhermore just to respond to Freakname and MaryBS re: the other people may have wanted to pay individualy - I have since found out the answer would have been a resounding no!!
organizing mate said the other day 'What did you think of that she should have put in and shut up.' Mate who sold some of her (admitedly crap)gold said she thought the women was tight. I saw mate who picked up the bill and said it was 151... in the pub the other night and she was fuming still. Me? I couldn't give a toss how it was done!! It was nice food, nice people and a chance to catch up with everyone after me working for all summer. All for 20 scrilla. Not bad.
Thamks for opinions folks

I went out with work one night. I was pregnant and couldn't eat half the food so had to pick a choose courses as it was all salmon and mooses etc so mine was really cheap and shoddy and it was a crap night for me on the whole. Pretty much everyone else got ridiculously sloshed and the drinks were very dear. They also added courses to their pre booked lot when they got there as things 'looked nice' etc. They divided it up equally at the end and a a cheap crap meal for me turned into a hugely expensive one.

I was kind of hoping someone would say 'oh you had next to nothing, you don't need to pay that much' but anyway I just paid it as it's polite.

You should never start trying to divide it all into who had what, it's just not the done thing, you just HAVE to pay it. No matter how unfair it is.

I also go out with my friend on a regular basis and we usually split the bill but when I'm pregnant and not drinking she insists on paying more as we're friends and she doesn't want to 'do me over' this is a nice attitude to have.

I always assume that the bill will be split equally, unless there is a specific agreement that each will pay their own share.

I find the paying your own share weird - dinner is a social event and not worth ruining (and getting the calculator out always ruins a good night) I always imagine this is done by the same people who note how much someone spent on their DC's Cristmas pressie and vow not to spend a penny over when later buying for the gift givers DC.

I find the talk of "people taking the piss" strange - surely people don't sit down to eat with the intention of getting the most "value for money" from their food - don't most people just pick what they want?!

When I go out with the mums from my DDs class we usually split the bill but always take into account those who haven't been drinking and they pay a bit less. (e.g. those who haven't had wine £17, those who have £20) No one has ever made a fuss about it- it's what we all agreed the first time we went out- it just seems the fair thing to do.

If it hasn't been discussed before you start the meal it is very petty to make a fuss at the end.

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate when the bill is split equally and some have had more than others. It is unfair especially to those who haven't much money.

I was in this situation in February this year and won't be going out again in a big group, I find this crap way of paying at a meal.

Sticking to smaller group from now on!

YANBU