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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to consider reporting friend to SS?

456 replies

sillysalley · 14/10/2009 22:42

I have a friend who's approach to parenting is just ... well ... worrying really.

Her and her husband have a crazy fascination with keeping the house like a show home and nothing else seems to be of importance other than that. I cant emphasise how much of a fascination it is, not just that they have a tidy house but things like
no baby gates allowed
children not allowed toys anywhere other than their bedroom
children not allowed to sit on the expensive leather sofa if they are wearing clothes with buckles and belts etc

Well i visited recently and their 2 year old is still not speaking (not even a single word, he makes very little noise)

Then she told me something that really worried me. Her 2 year old was really ill recently and she had to send for an ambulance because he could hardly breathe. She said
'I could hear him in his cot struggling to breathe, i was so panicked because it took me ages to get to him, trying to untie all the rope around his door handle to get into his room'

I presume the rope is to stop him going out of his bedroom in the night, as they wont have baby gates becuase they damage the walls.

Then she went on to say the hospital wanted her 2yo to stay in for the night but she refused and took him home.

I cant believe that HV or the hospital have not picked up on this, but I am truly worried. The thing is she isnt the kind of person you could approach about the issue. So all I can think of is an anonymous referal the SS.

Would that be unreasonable?

OP posts:
wannaBe · 15/10/2009 13:05

and imagine going to bed at night and then getting up and discovering you'd been locked in your room. How scary must that be for a child.

And yes, I appreciate that it was a rope and not a lock, but the child wouldn't know that would they?

pooexplosions · 15/10/2009 13:09

I think from a fire safety point of view, doors should be shut at night, no?

Stealth, what you want, ideally, is a really crappy, flimsy (though extortionately expensive) house that you can here not only them screaming, but breathing, from 2 floors away.
Then you can close all the doors and still hear them no bother...

Hando · 15/10/2009 13:11

Why on Earth are people suggesting the OP calls SS or NSPCC based on the very little informatio she has and what has been passed on to us? I think some people just have such boring lives that it makes them a little more interesting if they know they are stirring up some problems and action on MN!

This lady have a very clean house - obvious child abuser, eh? Expensive leather sofas which she wants to keep nice and not get ripped - I totally understand the no buckles on the sofas rule too, I'm always careful with my zips and dd's shoe buckles on my mums nice leather sofas.

Son went to hospital. He would have been thoroughly checked by the nurse / doctor, they always check young children for any signs of abuse. If they thought he was in danger then he wouldn;t have been let home. They would have told her they will not let him go home and he had to stay. They let her take hiom so he couldn;t have been in any danger.

My friends was nearly 3 when he started talking. It is perfectly normal to be a late talker, she talks to him loads as well and he is not SN either.

So as far as I can see there are NO signs og abuse there at all.

The rope. Well, as lots of people have said it is suggested in at least one parenting "guide". So naive parents may well read it and follw their advice. I agree it's a silly thing to do, but just look how many people have posted that they had to lock their kids bedroom doors! Now, although we know it's a bit silly as could be dangerous in an emergency, the theory of locking kids bedroom doors in generally is quite accepted and common. Not something I have done though, but can understand the need to stop them geting out if they are likely to get out and get in trouble during the night.

Persoanlly, I think not having a smoke alarm ina house with young children is even more dangerous than the rope tied to the door to keep it shut at night. OP, would you call SS if your friend didn't have a smoke alarm?

SS and NSPCC don't have time to deal with people reporting others because they have made different pareting choices or because they have a very clean house!

Have a word and let her know that the rope is probably not the best idea - but then as she told you about it she has probably realised that already.

Milkmade · 15/10/2009 13:13

StealthBear - I still to hear DD having nightmares / ill/ opining that she wants a glass of water, cuddle or to play with her toys etc even with her door and mine shut, and a long hallway between.
FWIW I go with a shut bedroom door, which dd can open, and a stairgate outside that. Before she could reach the door though it didn't really worry me, as she'd only just progressed out of a cot, and I don't really get how or why not being able to open a bedroom door would be more distressing for a toddler than not being able to climb out of a cot. Not sure what I'll do when she needs night-time access to the loo though.

Hando · 15/10/2009 13:14

Just saw the post from pooexplosions. I also do not persoanlly agree with locking children in their rooms. It must be scary for them. However, if I had a chil with SN (as another poster has described) who has no idea of danger and perhaps the parents are heavy sleepers, then surely it's better to lock them in than for them to get up at 4am and swing from bannisters, turn the oven on etc. So it's not an ideal scenario but can be the better of two options for some people.

seaglass · 15/10/2009 13:15

I haven't read all 500 pages, so hope this isn't old news!
OP, I think YABU - you are critisising your friend for having a tidy house with boundaries set for her children

  • you are worried because the DC doesn't talk - aged 2!
  • rope around the door handle - I followed the toddler taming book to try to keep my DS in his bed, and the advice in there is - if all else fails, tie a rope around the door handle so they can't get out - this was the only thing that eventually made him realise that 2 am was not the time for fun and games. Just because this is a little extreme, doesn't mean that it hasn't sorted out many parents sleep problems - take it up with Dr Christopher Green if you don't like it!
My DC3 was a late talker, and at 2 was virtually silent, if one of my friends found this worrying, I would wonder why they were my friend. If you are concerned about the rope, talk to your friend, there is probably an innocent explanation.
Hando · 15/10/2009 13:15

Wow my post was written in 1st, 2nd and 3rd person - clever old me

seaglass · 15/10/2009 13:23

And meant to say as well - my DS has been admitted to hospital with asthma attacks, and we have been allowed to bring him home - but this advice has always been ambiguous, and on occasions, we have wondered whether they really meant him to stay in - however, he was admitted another time, and there was no question of him going home. If the hospital had felt it was vital for this DC to stay in, believe me, he would have stayed in!
You obviously have some concerns, but it doesn't sound like you are close friends - so if they did have concerns about his talking, they would be unlikely to talk to you about it, and why wouldn't someone who is house proud have strict rules about it? Any why on earth should they be critisised for having a tidy house?

gorionine · 15/10/2009 13:24

Read only first three pages and last one (sorry! but a bit too long)

I am not really approving the rope tied arround the handle door but surely, usually child abusers try to "cover up" any abuse they might commit. Being very opened and telling you they found it hard to open the door because of the rope does not fit with someone who would have done it with anything malicious in mind to me but I might be wrong. I would rather ask my friend why she thinks she has to do it rather than going straight away to SS.

BonsoirAnna · 15/10/2009 13:27

The rope is really odd, but all the rest falls well within the boundaries of normal parenting (though might not be my personal choice).

ChunkyMonkeysMum · 15/10/2009 13:32

People keep going on about the fire risks of locking kids doors etc etc. Well, I agree, but most posters who have locked/tied a childs door have removed the lock/tie when they go to bed.

I have a video monitor for my boys. I bought an extra camera so I have 1 in each of their rooms. I can hear & see both of them when they go to bed.

Neither of them have locks on their doors at present as DS1 grew out of coming out of his room a couple of years back after having a lock fitted for a couple of weeks (which was removed every night when I went to bed as I knew that he would sleep all night), and DS2 is only 13 months so as of yet doesn't need his door locked. They do both however have their doors shut tight at night, always have done, so have never thought of it as scary.

DS1 was never distressed by the fact that he couldn't open his door when I locked it. He might attempt to open it a couple of times, couldn't, so got back into bed. If he had been distressed by it I would have tried another approach.

DS1 is SN but luckily I do not have to lock his door anymore & have never had to leave it locked overnight, but I can totally understand why some parents of kids with SN do have to keep their doors locked for their own safety.

wannaBe · 15/10/2009 13:33

I think it's a little naive to suggest that all child abusers would cover it up. Because some people don't see what they're doing as abusive.

E.g. (as referred to earlier in the thread) I recently had a conversation with someone who said that she disciplines her child by washing his mouth out with soap. She said that was the only discipline that worked. And it wasn't a one-off - this is a regular occurrence.

But she doesn't see it as being wrong.

But it clearly is. And having taken advice it would be viewed as an asalt

So should nothing be said/done purely because she doesn't see what she's doing is wrong?

ChunkyMonkeysMum · 15/10/2009 13:36

Again wannabe, your friends approach to discipline doesn't warrant a call to SS, just a chat to let her know that this is a very "old school" form of discipline. But hey, why is it so wrong if she has exhaustively tried everything else ??

I don't think I could do it, but my Mum did it to my brother once for swearing. He never did it again after that (not within her earshot anyway )

gorionine · 15/10/2009 13:41

Wannabe you are right, it is a too simplistic vision of things. What I meant is she is not doing it on purpose, to abuse and talking to her would probably be more reasonable than jumping straight to SS. So yes, something should be said but to the friend, not SS.

Hando · 15/10/2009 13:41

I think washing a child mouth ou with soap is an awfult hing to do. I can't imagine doing that to my dd, but it has been used over the years by many many people - it's just an old fashioned idea.

However, I doubt it causes any long term damage, and I think it'd better than smacking your chid as a lot of parents do. I also think that if that's the only {hmm} thing the parent does that it doesn't warrant a call to SS.

wannaBe · 15/10/2009 13:45

funny, at the time I posted about it (under a namechange) the opinion was signifficantly different.

Oh and did I mention that he'd hidden the bars of soap so they couldn't use them but they told him not to worry - they would use shower gell instead?

But hey if it's the only thing that works... for me personally the only thing that works is a belt but... well that's my perogative as a parent after all isn't it.

.

wannaBe · 15/10/2009 13:51

and think about it, if someone is quite open about doing something like that to a child, what might they do that they're not open about?

ChunkyMonkeysMum · 15/10/2009 13:55

Oh come on, it is so totally different to wash a childs mouth out now and again than hitting them with (or without) a belt. Society tells us that to "hit" our kids in wrong. I don't remember hearing of any cases where a child died & parents were jailed for washing their kids mouth out!!

StealthPolarBear · 15/10/2009 13:55

"I have a video monitor for my boys. I bought an extra camera so I have 1 in each of their rooms. I can hear & see both of them when they go to bed."
I'd be happy with that and shutting doors.

and I do have a flimy house with thin walls, and I can hear DS stirring before he calls out for me. I think it's a psychological thing about out of sight out of mind with the door shut. Not to mention that if I did want to go in his room at night and had to open it the CREEEEEAK would wake us all up

wannaBe · 15/10/2009 13:59

does a child have to die then?

Is it not abuse until a child is dead?

What about the emotional scarring that child will grow up with?

gorionine · 15/10/2009 13:59

I think you are reading far too much into it.

Parents do sometimes exhaust their possibilities (or thank they have exhausted them) and do stupid things. It does not make them abusers.I would think most of us would be fit to have SS called on us if it was the case!

Jujubean77 · 15/10/2009 14:09

"Son went to hospital. He would have been thoroughly checked by the nurse / doctor, they always check young children for any signs of abuse. If they thought he was in danger then he wouldn;t have been let home. They would have told her they will not let him go home and he had to stay. They let her take hiom so he couldn;t have been in any danger."

So you put all your faith in Doctors and Nurses? I have two words; baby Peter.

OP you have a gut feeling here - please contact someone, I would suggest HV, to talk through your concerns.

ChunkyMonkeysMum · 15/10/2009 14:09

No wannaBe, a child does not have to die. I was just making the point that as far as I am aware no child has died from their parents periodically washing their mouths out as a form of discipline. This does not count as abuse in my book.

As for emotional scarring.........I don't think my brother was left emotionally scarred by my mum washing his mouth out, although he may have been if she had belt the crap out of him! Therefore, I see a BIG difference.

What a fab perfect parent you must be.

StealthPolarBear - My walls are ultra thin too, and I always hear either of my kids in the night without the monitor. The monitor really is just for our peace of mind through the evening whilst we are downstairs. I like to see them drifting off to sleep. It's so cute to watch them

Sassybeast · 15/10/2009 14:11

Interesting thread and I do think you've taken a lot of flak OP. I think that the key thing is that YOU feel uneasy - I think my first port of call would be to talk to my OWN HV for advice.

mrsgboring · 15/10/2009 14:15

All within the bounds of normal parenting IMO. I think the point of the rope round the doorhandle Toddler Taming trick is to allow the door to be opened enough that the child can look out, but not enough that they can get out (he says ensure they can't get their head out - presumably for safety reasons) - so in theory better than a lock or shutting a door the child can't open.

It's not something I would do myself, but I certainly don't think it's a SS issue.