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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to investigate whether my grandfather's widow has diddled my mum out of her inheritance?

143 replies

mrshibbins · 12/10/2009 17:18

background:

My mother is an only child. Her parents were divorced acrimoniously when she was a small child and she did not see her father again after the age of 12 because he ceased all contact when he remarried - to a girl only 4 years older than herself. This has always been a source of much self-doubt and unhappiness for her.

He had no further children. He died in 1977 and left a widow and a property.

I only found out all this because about 5 years ago I conducted a search at the Family Record Office. I found out from the death certificate that he had a widow, and from the electoral register that she still lived at the same address. I wrote to his widow, explaining who I was, and asking to meet her to talk because I really wanted to find out what had happened to my grandfather so that I could put my mother's mind at rest in some way.

I heard nothing for nearly 3 months, then she telephoned me (but withheld the number). We arranged to meet in town (she would not let me go to her home) outside Tie Rack at Liverpool St Station and from there we went to a pub and had lunch. She was very defensive throughout the meeting. She told me that when they met he was a very successful electrical engineer and doing very well for himself financially. After marrying she moved into his house - still occupied by her.

They had no children together and she had no children of her own. He subsequently a complete mental breakdown from which he never fully recovered and that he died relatively young in his early sixties.

I asked her why she had made no attempt to contact my mother when he died and she became even more defensive and said she did not understand why my mother would want to know. I made several attempts to contact her since this time, but she never replied to any of my letters or cards.

Then my OH recently suggested that the woman never contacted my mother when her father died because no will had been made and that my mother would have had some legacy coming to her. And thought that this is why she refuses to be in contact with us.

So, I started investigating and sure enough, no will was ever lodged with the Probate Office. I have contacted a solicitor and he has said that my mother would in this case should have inherited 50% of the property (on the death of his widow) and that the next step is to make enquiries with the land registry to see who the flat was registered to at the time of my grandfather's death.

I have no desire whatsoever to turf the woman out of her home, or to say to her 'what you did was wrong' because she must have been in a state. BUT eventually, when SHE dies, I want to make sure that my grandfather's property and remaining possessions should pass to my mother, and not to anyone else.

Am I doing the right thing in pursuing this?

OP posts:
Morloth · 13/10/2009 10:33

Wills are a very good idea in any case.

Makes life much easier for the people left behind to deal with everything if it is all written down clearly and legally what the deceased wanted. People may still contest, but at least you have somewhere to start.

SingingBear · 13/10/2009 10:34

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ChazsBarmyArmy · 13/10/2009 10:35

MrsHibbins - I have great sympathy for what your mum has been through but I don't think pursuing your GF's widow is necessarily the answer. Unless the property is worth a lot of money I think it is quite possible that your GF widow inherited the property free and clear.

Not only is she entitled to a statutory legacy and all chattels before anything goes to any issue but she is also entitled to a life interest over half the residual estate (Admin of Estates Act 1925).

Even if the statutory legacy was less than the value of the house she would have had the right to have her life interest capitalised i.e. to have the cash value of her life interest added to the amount she was entitled to inherit. This capitalised life interest can be used to acquire a the remainder of the matrimonial home if it was worth more than the statutory legacy. Furthermore, if there was still a shortfall she would have been entitled to make up the difference with her own funds. (See Sch 2 Intestates' Estate Act 1952)

Additionally as Seabright has already pointed out if they were joint tenants i.e. each own the whole asset rather than a specified share (tenants in common)then the house would automatically pass to her without ever forming part of your GF's estate. The form of joint tenancy most people are familiar with is a joint account where you both have equal access to and rights over the funds and when one party dies the account becomes the sole account of the survivor but you can have the same concept with real property such as houses.

SingingBear · 13/10/2009 10:44

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pleasechange · 13/10/2009 10:49

agree with singingbear

AngryFromManchester · 13/10/2009 10:51

Thanks. I will speak to him about making a will.

AngryFromManchester · 13/10/2009 10:52

I feel an idiot for not thinking about this before tbh!

pleasechange · 13/10/2009 10:56

well at least you have now . MN is great for making you aware of lots of stuff imo. Whereabouts in MCR are you?

AngryFromManchester · 13/10/2009 11:20

I am a Midlander in Kent (it is from a song)

and thank you everyone

BetsyBoop · 13/10/2009 11:35

As others have said there may have been a will that didn't need probate if house was held jointly & other assets were

theyoungvisiter · 13/10/2009 11:37

But mrshibbins I can't see that your investigations are going to protect your mum from any hurt at all.

What are the facts at this moment? That there is a slim chance she might be entitled to some money. What are her choices? To either pursue the money, contact the widow, or leave both well alone.

If you investigate then she still has a choice to make. The answer will either be that she very possible does have a claim on the estate, in which case she will still have the three choices set out above, or that she very likely does not have a claim on the estate, in which case she will still have to decide whether to contact the widow or leave alone.

I really can't see that probing further without her consent saves her any heart-ache at all. It may just give her a very slightly less muddy choice, is all. Do you really think that clarification on the money issue is going to solve any of the complex emotional hurt and regret?

theyoungvisiter · 13/10/2009 11:42

in fact if you give her the choice NOW then her response may well be freer and less complicated than if it turns out there is money involved.

Think about it from your mother's POV. Perhaps she doesn't want to stir this up, yet if you go to her saying "I think our family may be entitled to some money" then she may feel obliged to pursue it in order to help her children out, whether she wants to or not. You are putting a lot of pressure on her - not intentionally I am sure, but a "no" from her is a rejection of all your hard work.

If you go to her now saying "I honestly don't know the situation but do you want to investigate?" then she can make a much freer choice without feeling she is doing her own children out of possible future inheritance.

I think you are automatically assuming your mum will be pleased if there is money there for her and gutted if there's not - I think that's an awfully big assumption.

diddl · 13/10/2009 11:46

I´m starting to feel sorry for the 75yr old who might think she´s secure in her old age, and then might be getting solicitors letters suggesting the contrary.

OP,is there any chance your stepgran could be thinking of making a will in favour of you & your siblings?

And before I get flamed, a man I knew married his housekeeper, admittedly after his wife died.

His children were very disparaging as they thought she wasn´t good enough.

He died first, she didn´t spend all his money,as feared,and willed it equally to her late husbands grandchildren.

AitchTwoToTangOh · 13/10/2009 11:46

agree completely with tyv wrt the pressure your mum might feel re inheritance for her own children. i do find it a teeny bit hard to believe that there's no self-interest here, tbh. if finding out that he was dead laid some ghosts to rest for your mum, why revive them with all this?

mosschops30 · 13/10/2009 12:01

Why do you feel that any of this will make things better for your mum OP?

My biological father basically disowned me at the age of 12 and started a new life with his new family (am not bitter about this part because my mother was having an affair but hey ho) but the fact remains that as a child I was very close to my father and loved him dearly.

Im now 34 and havent seen him for 20 years, I no longer class him as my 'Dad' I dont know where he lives (although know people who know people who do), I have no desire to be told when he dies, and certainly dont want to inheit anything from his estate, why would I???

Im just struggling to see how you think any of this will benefit your mum, and I do feel that your desire to have his home passed to your family on his widow's death is rather more about you than about your mum whom I presume has a home of her own and has done for some time.

claw3 · 13/10/2009 12:07

If you know what you can/cannot do legally already and think you are being perfectly reasonable, why did you post here?

AitchTwoToTangOh · 13/10/2009 12:13

more to the point, why post here? lol.

this thread has pissed me right off, tbh, hence me linking to it. threads about threads linking back to original threads... so not cool, lol.

wildfig · 13/10/2009 12:23

Without going into the legal side of things, I'd be very wary about stirring up an emotional hornets' nest for your mother. You say your grandfather left your grandmother 'acrimoniously' to marry a very young girl (and how long had he known her before they married?), and he never looked back, never got in touch. Maybe he was encouraged not to, by your grandmother's side of the family? There could be all manner of family secrets that've been buried for the last sixty years, all of which will come spewing out if the situation with the stepmother turns nasty. It might even be that the memories your mother has of your grandfather could be tainted - for what?

I do sympathise with your passion to see your mother's abandonment made up for in some way - it's totally understandable - but I don't think money's going to do it.

mrshibbins · 13/10/2009 12:25

claw three - I posted here because I genuinely didn't know what was the right thing to do from a moral POV, that's why.

I wanted to hear what other people would do in the same circumstances, if it was their mum.

And I've now considered all the genuinely helpful posts on here, and had a long long think.

After a long walk last night and another this morning, I have decided not take the issue any further, whether there was a legal case or not.

I still am totally baffled at why a couple of ladies on here are so aggrieved and peed off ...

OP posts:
OrmIrian · 13/10/2009 12:25

He sounds totally vile and weak-willed. If I were your mum I'd want nothing to do with him or his things.

I can understand how hurt you must feel though.

AitchTwoToTangOh · 13/10/2009 12:27

oh if you're talking about me there, it's because you started another aibu bleating about this one, trying to muster support. yuck.

i still think you're treating your mum like a baby, though. if she's 71 and fit as a fiddle why not just ask her what she wants to do?

mrshibbins · 13/10/2009 12:33

still baffled ...

everyone is entitled to a POV and everyone here has given me one - some nicely and others not so nicely. I've weighed them all up, had a think and made my decision.

isn't that okay?

OP posts:
AitchTwoToTangOh · 13/10/2009 12:34

why are you baffled?

WartoScreamo · 13/10/2009 12:43

I think the way you described the situation. it came across as if you were really only concerned about the cash, and not about the feelings of the other people involved.....hence the bashing.

And I speak as someone whose step mother WILL diddle my dad's family out of any inheritance......

claw3 · 13/10/2009 12:54

Mrshibbins - Havent read the whole thread, if your mother is struggling financially, then go for it. If not best to leave it.