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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to investigate whether my grandfather's widow has diddled my mum out of her inheritance?

143 replies

mrshibbins · 12/10/2009 17:18

background:

My mother is an only child. Her parents were divorced acrimoniously when she was a small child and she did not see her father again after the age of 12 because he ceased all contact when he remarried - to a girl only 4 years older than herself. This has always been a source of much self-doubt and unhappiness for her.

He had no further children. He died in 1977 and left a widow and a property.

I only found out all this because about 5 years ago I conducted a search at the Family Record Office. I found out from the death certificate that he had a widow, and from the electoral register that she still lived at the same address. I wrote to his widow, explaining who I was, and asking to meet her to talk because I really wanted to find out what had happened to my grandfather so that I could put my mother's mind at rest in some way.

I heard nothing for nearly 3 months, then she telephoned me (but withheld the number). We arranged to meet in town (she would not let me go to her home) outside Tie Rack at Liverpool St Station and from there we went to a pub and had lunch. She was very defensive throughout the meeting. She told me that when they met he was a very successful electrical engineer and doing very well for himself financially. After marrying she moved into his house - still occupied by her.

They had no children together and she had no children of her own. He subsequently a complete mental breakdown from which he never fully recovered and that he died relatively young in his early sixties.

I asked her why she had made no attempt to contact my mother when he died and she became even more defensive and said she did not understand why my mother would want to know. I made several attempts to contact her since this time, but she never replied to any of my letters or cards.

Then my OH recently suggested that the woman never contacted my mother when her father died because no will had been made and that my mother would have had some legacy coming to her. And thought that this is why she refuses to be in contact with us.

So, I started investigating and sure enough, no will was ever lodged with the Probate Office. I have contacted a solicitor and he has said that my mother would in this case should have inherited 50% of the property (on the death of his widow) and that the next step is to make enquiries with the land registry to see who the flat was registered to at the time of my grandfather's death.

I have no desire whatsoever to turf the woman out of her home, or to say to her 'what you did was wrong' because she must have been in a state. BUT eventually, when SHE dies, I want to make sure that my grandfather's property and remaining possessions should pass to my mother, and not to anyone else.

Am I doing the right thing in pursuing this?

OP posts:
LIZS · 12/10/2009 18:17

He may have spun her all sorts of yarns about the estrangement - you really don't and sadly probably never will, know why he never made contact for all that time. He chose not to get in touch for all those years, I don't think it is entirely fair to project your anger, on your mother's behalf, onto his widow.

mrshibbins · 12/10/2009 18:20

Morloth: would you believe someone if they told you that their 12 year old daughter who they had until then seen every single weekend 'was not interested'??

IvyKaty44 btw I was 15 in 1977 so yes, I was ignorant. I am now not ignorant. My mother was and is still totally naive about such things. She is 71 now.

Yes, I make a point of checking the public records on a regular basis to find out if people have died...

Don't get me wrong, when I know what the Letters of Administration say, and whether the 50% is based on the value THEN or, in the circumstances, the value TODAY, then I'll speak to her about it.

No, I'm not projecting on to her. I'm just angry that my mother has been diddled, and want to put it right - IF SHE WANTS IT.

OP posts:
megapixels · 12/10/2009 18:20

If your grandfather did not contact his daughter it's all his doing. He's not a baby, why should it be the responsibility of anyone else to admonish him into doing it? I don't think you can blame his widow for that particular point at all.

LIZS · 12/10/2009 18:21

If they had lost contact for so long, would your dm have been easily traceable in 1977? I may be that there was a notice placed in the press at the time but noone came forward. tbh I'm not sure why his widow would have responded now if she had anything to hide .

mrshibbins · 12/10/2009 18:23

wouldn't any of you be angry? don't you think it's wrong? wouldn't you want to see justice done on behalf of your elderly parent?

This lady would have to have deliberately lied about the non-existence of my mother and deliberately broken the law in order for the property to pass to her without my mother being informed ...

OP posts:
Morloth · 12/10/2009 18:24

I don't know, I am not her, I was not there.

I am not saying you are wrong or even that you would not win if it came down to a contest of law. But just that the price may be too high for your Mum to pay.

It will get nasty, these things always do.

mrshibbins · 12/10/2009 18:26

LIZS the widow confirmed that no attempt was made to trace my mother when her dad died. I think she only met me (why withhold her phone number and refuse to give it to me?) to put me off TBH

I am I really being so mean and awful to think that she deliberately made sure my mother got nothing?

OP posts:
Ivykaty44 · 12/10/2009 18:26

Yes I would be angry, yes it would niggle me - but I wouldn't do anything without first speaking to my parent as that is how we are as a family. Then I would have to go along with their wishes aswell.

If this woman has broken the law - then those are the exceptional circumstances, arent they?

i am not sure on how adminstrations work?

mrshibbins · 12/10/2009 18:27

but why should it get nasty? all I want is for my mum to get a little something on the death of an old lady who had no descendants. I don't want her turfed out of her home....

OP posts:
diddl · 12/10/2009 18:29

How old was your mum when her dad died?

Did he support her at all financially afterhe left?

You have a lot of bitterness.

If your mother doesn´t want to pursue it, you should let it go, IMO.

Or are you thinking of yourself as your mum is 71 & your grandfathers widow 75?

LIZS · 12/10/2009 18:30

But if your gf wanted to provide for your dm he could have made a will and lodged it with a solicitor himself. If he really died intestate it seems he was happy to shirk the responsibilty, harsh though that sounds. On the oen hand you say you don't want to accuse his widow but your words suggest otherwise.

Ivykaty44 · 12/10/2009 18:30

She may have been worried about her own furture - she had just lost a husnband, was she due to lose the house aswell?

See with a will your grandfather could have left half to his 2nd wife and the other half in trust to your mother when his second wife died. But there was no will and this could mean that things were looking bleak - would she lose her home? Did she lie awake at night wondering?

i don't know and neither do you. I would think you need to ask your mother first what she wants.

JeremyVile · 12/10/2009 18:31

"Don't get me wrong, when I know what the Letters of Administration say, and whether the 50% is based on the value THEN or, in the circumstances, the value TODAY, then I'll speak to her about it."

Obviously, whether the valuation that matters is the 1977 one or that as it satnds currently will make a huge difference to the financial side of things. But why is that something you need to know before you inform your mother? If this is about "the injustice"?

Morloth · 12/10/2009 18:32

Because the widow will fight it and she will probably bring up all sorts of reasons for why she didn't tell your Mum. She will probably slang accusations at your Grandmother, accuse your mother of greed and of hounding an old lady. She will hire her own lawyers and they will want details about your mother, they may demand proof that your mother is indeed your Grandfather's daughter (what if your Grandfather told this woman that your mother was a result of an affair that your Grandmother had and that is why she thought you Mum wouldn't be interested?). Obviously I am not saying that any of that is true but just be prepared for the worst.

I worked in a family law office for many years and have seen these sorts of things get thrown around regularly.

It will get complicated and it is only money, it won't turn back the clock and help your Mum when she needed it. She has no children but that doesn't mean she has no heirs and they will contest (especially if there is money to be had).

Ivykaty44 · 12/10/2009 18:33

Write to York and get the letters of admon - then you will know for the cost of £5 and can take it from there

Nancy66 · 12/10/2009 18:35

I actually think it was pretty decent of your grandfather's widow to agree to meet you - she didn't have to. It also sounds as though she went through a lot in her marriage and cared for her husband when he was very sick.

I think you are wrongly blaming her for things that were not her fault and projecting the 'evil stepmother' role on her a little.

Look into it my all means, but I would have thought that as now all assets are hers she is entitled to leave them to whomever she wants.

Ivykaty44 · 12/10/2009 18:36

I would probably want to take it further, sorry I am confused about the dates

JeremyVile · 12/10/2009 18:38

Being horribly practical about this - sorry - your mother and this woman are roughly the same age, so you're trying to ensure something is left for your mother when GFs widow dies but realistically either could go first.

stuffitllllama · 12/10/2009 18:42

OP I think you're getting a hard time.

mrshibbins · 12/10/2009 18:42

JeremyVile I want to research it properly before I tell my mother. There's no point telling her about it until I've got all the facts and the possible outcomes. Then, her decision goes.

I guess this does reflect on me a lot. I abhor misjustice and hate liars - except for when those lies are being told to protect the feelings of the living ...

OP posts:
JeremyVile · 12/10/2009 18:42

I just honestly dont think this is worth it, your mother may be "naive" about things, but it seems she hasn't looked into this at all. Tha cant be an accident, can it? She may be unaware of how things work but if this is something she had wondered about - or had any interest in - she would presumably have mentioned it to someone? or gotten some form of adviceby now?

Morloth · 12/10/2009 18:45

stuffitllllama "OP I think you're getting a hard time."

Why?

Lulumama · 12/10/2009 18:45

it's not diddling if he chose to have no contact with his daughter, or chose not to make a will, or simply never got round to it

if he had made a will and your mother had not been mentioned in it, and he was of sound mind when he made the will, would you be contesting it?

thesecondcoming · 12/10/2009 18:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PoppyDeLaFoof · 12/10/2009 18:50

Can you hand on heart say that you aren't doing this with at least a little bit of an eye on what you might inherit yourself?

Honestly?

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