In thinking that the benefit system encourages lone parenthood?

[retiredgoth2]

And no.

I am not starting a fight for its own sake, even though I am aware that one may ensue.

I am a lone parent (of four. Two with SEN)

So is my Special Friend ('SF') She has two children, one with a disability.

We are going to move in together. Neither of our earning capacities will increase. We are both already working as much as is possible. In SF's case, perhaps more than is advisable...

We have done the sums.

Between us we will be (wait for it) 20 k a year worse off.

Yes. I said Twenty Thousand Pounds.

And this does not include the housing benefit SF currently receives.

I will lose all of my widowed parents allowance, and the late Mrs Goth's NHS pension, about 8k. The balance is tax credits, which will reduce to almost zilch.

The only net gain is council tax. Whilst we both lose the 25% reduction, we will only have to pay on one property. This is a gain of about £500.

Now. I don't think I am owed a living. But these sums nearly put us off. There are many others who would be deterred.

I do not know an answer, but feel that this is a flaw in the benefits system, discouraging people from either (a) being honest or (b) living stable lives...

What could be done?

oldraver - the HB is massively valuable as you say. Agree with your figures too. That is precisely why many a teenage mother deliberately gets pregnant. It is the only way she can afford to move out of her parent's home. Try doing that on a minimum wage job. Impossible. I know quite a few young guys with degrees still living at home unable to get a job. Not an option for them.

It is almost entirely the HB that causes the single teenage mother syndrome. There will always be teenage pregnancies but the vast bulk see it is a big incentive. As I said earlier, the girls I have heard on the bus talking about how their sister did it and when they should apply to get on the list and how to get the flat.

They have it all worked out. Except they do not realise what an awful life it leads to. They only see the 'if I have a baby I get my own home' not the poverty, boredom, loneliness, debt and fear that follows.

actually 24k is 18k net.

Which is roughly what my benefits for THREE children worked out at.

CTC and CB make a massive difference when you have more children. For example - it currentl works out that we get £143 a week CTC with 3 children, that's about £47 a week per child.

Someone with ONE child (apart from in the ridiculously priced parts of the SE and London) will NOT be getting the equivalent of earning £24k even including council tax benefit.

And for many many people (unless they've been lucky enough to get a council house) the HB won't cover all of the rent, so they'll have to top up out of their £115 a week other benefits.

And oldraver - believe me I knew how much I would have had to earn a year to live in my £600 a month home (£530 of which was covered by the HB). I would have had to earn a minimum of approx £12k a year, which would have been "topped up" with WTC and CB (and my organ money) to cover all my bills.

DH needs to earn a minimum of a similar amount to keep us afloat here.

So abetadad what would you suggest? Cancel HB?

The thing is some teenage girls get PG for that reaosn- not all by any means. And are we as a society willing to sacrifice the wellbeing of those babies born to those mothers in order to prevent the incentive of housing?

I don't know the answers, but I do know that any changes that penalise small children are against all I beleive in. As indeed is anything that may push people into terminations they do not actually want.

I can also give you the figures for just about every salary imaginable between 12k and about 20k for what we'd have to live on

I applied for JSA recently. Was kept hanging for ages, going in fortnightly to sign on (Just in case they did decide to pay me). Eventually a lady there was kind enough to tell me I was wasting my time. She said because dp works full time, I won't get a penny. WHen I said to her 'but if I kicked him out the door tomorrow?' she replied 'yes, you'd get loads of money' I don't know the figures involved, but it seems stupid that I am in a very tight spot financially, but I can't get any help because I am in a relationship and he works. Bumped into a lady from bf group straight after this chat. She has four kids, lives in a council house, has a brand new car, flat screen tv and neither she or her husband has worked a day in 2 years. She was loaded down with shopping and her first words to me were 'I've just spent a FORTUNE' It kind of rubbed salt into the wounds a bit. i don't have enough money to buy myself a suit for job interviews. Her advice? 'Get your DP to jack in his job for a bit' Well, I know who knows how to milk the system then.

I'm not saying single mums have any easy life. It just seems unfair that you lose out if you have a partner.

oh I wondered when the flat screen TV's and brand new cars would come into the thread .

You can't get those things on benefits unless

a) they were given to you
b) you've saved VERY hard for a VERY long time
c) you've taken out ludicrous amount of (very expensive) credit.

Ann, if she ahs a brand new car my guess is there is something else going on- DLA maybe or some kind of payment (will / compensation) that she has kept to herself. I used to woprk in niche car finance (yeah, sorry about that, I did leave ASAP) and the only non employed people we touched were those with mobility payments.

oh or

d) are commiting fraud and working and getting cash in hand

well they can get a social fund loan for the flatscreen....

True always looking although you'd have to donoticeable - to- a - neighbour hours for that wouldnt you? Of course that does go on though but in fairness, there's a definite thing that if people condone and don't report then it will continue

true Tiff - but they still have to pay it back - even if it is interest free and over a long period of time.

Peachy - I don't know the answer. However, the main reason this happens is because of the ridiculously expensive housing market we have. It has sucked so many resources into unproductive areas of the economy.

When I was pg and my husband left - I certianly didn't get "loads" of money.

I have always heard these stories about loads of money - but when I became a single parent and was pg I was offered didly squat, well certainly not enough money to feed and cloth us both and keep a roof over our heads - they even told me they would take into account the child benifit that I got and take it off the benifit i received if I claimed.

More than that they were happy to see me lose the roof over my head, let me and my one dd and unborn child become homeless and then go into b&b.

I wasn't going to let that happen so got in a lodger in the spare room and made sure that I obtained all my income by legal means without a penny from the state - apart from child benifit.

Ivy - Child Benefit doesn't affect the other benefits.

i agree it is crap, but then i dont even get WPA or carers allowance
i do get a tiny pension from the NHS.
do you get the disability element on tax credits?
i am really chuffed for you both

Well I can only tell you that they were going to take the money out of my benifit as I was getting child benifit for one child - I am sure they were not telling fibs - to be honest I was shocked at the pitance I was going to get. It certianly wasn't going to be emnough money to live on - I would have scraped by and deff lost my home and been housed in B&B

This was 11 years ago - but to say that you will be better off single and that mums had babys to get loads of money - that was being said 12 years ago so I was shocked that the amount they offered me was thought of as lots of money - it isn't.

I was better of getting a lodger, rent a room is tax free money of at the time £70 per week - which was far better than dole. Then I could work part time and still be better off and keep any maintenece I got

To this day anyone that tells me being a single parent is a better financal deal I am shocked cos being 4 months pg and in a right state to be told that I would have to lose my home and they would give me less than £60 a week - well lol

maybe they did 11yrs ago - they don't now.

But I take most of what they tell you with a pinch of salt as I've discovered they've told me/DH/both of us some absolute shite in the last 2yrs.

Everything alwayslookingforanswers said. Short of time, sorry

In a place not too far from Southampton:

1 parent, 1 child:

£183.46 pw LHA (2 bed house)
£24 pw Council Tax benefit
£20 pw Child benefit
£53.41 pw CTC
£64.30 Income Support

Total pw:345.17 Total per month:£1495.74

That is the equivalent of £23,225 per annum gross wage.

Okay in the are where I live if you are entitled to a 3 bed house (ie 2 older dc of different sexes) a single parent will receive

£13,500 ish in HB & CTB
£740 in free school meals
and I think
£9,000ish in income support/CB/CTC type of thing

That's not a bad "income" however of course the reality is that the person receiving the benefits only gets the £10k a year.

I don't know how much benefits are, but I think Kentmumtj meant money in pocket after the person earning £26K had paid tax plus full bills (LP's get help with some bills, right?)

I know my DSS's mother lives in a 3-bed house (paid for)and you'd be lucky to get a big enough mortgage to afford one of those on £26K! She also goes on a foreign holiday at least once a year and lots of little mini-breaks to London, Stratford, Lego Land (all this year).

And at 41 she's worked for a grand total of 6 weeks. Ever. Her entire life.

I don't know about the rights and wrongs of it, but I know we can't afford it.

I am definately not better off as a single parent. I'm lucky to scrape by. I get £9k a year wages, £230 a week tax credits (of which £100 is childcare element) and child benefit. I dont get any housing or council tax benefit, though luckily live in a council house so its minimal rent (and found out today they changed the rules on 1st October and no longer count your child benefit so may now be entitled to £15 a week HB)

I break even. If I'm lucky. Ok, I run a car - but have just had to sell mine and get a smaller, older one as my tax credits drop soon (all to do with being worked out on last years earnings when on mat leave compared to this years) If there is an unexpected outgoing I use my overdraft or credit card - and struggle then to make more than minimum payments so will take me years to clear the debt.

However when ex-H lived here, he was self employed so we had a great income (gross compared to net profit, with tax rebates) and also earnt little enough to get some childcare help. I am most definately worse off being a single mum.

as for widescreen tvs and lots of shopping some mums have - provident loans. believe me, you dont want them - but a lot of these mums have them.

In fact, am in the process of trying to work out if I am better off on IS than working to be honest. At least from April 10 they dont take child maintenance into account anymore.

OP - YANBU at being miffed at losing some things like the pension but I would honestly give up extra money (as long as I wouldnt be in negative amounts every month) to have companionship and joint parenting again.

"rent limit here for 3 bedroom is £550pcm, county wide it's just under £600."

See, single parents (I am one, although working not on benefits) recieve various amounts dependant on their area, but that doesn't mean they actually get more, the cost of living is higher. Where I am the rent limit for a 3 bedroom ( a small one) is £1000. You can probably just get a 1 bed flat for £600, no more. Single parents need to earn a very good wage to be able to pay £1000 in rent + bills + food to survive.

Basically after the intial £20 per week that you earn that you are allowed to keep without losing benefits you then only get to keep 10p in the £1 of what you earn.

That really isn't much of an incentive is it for anyone!

ha ha- I'd rather have a rich husband or any husband than be on benefits.

Benefits is a struggle and I can't wait to get back to work.

when my ex dumped me I didn't think ''Woopie do- at least I can claim benefits noww.''
Far too simplistic!

Troll?