In thinking that the benefit system encourages lone parenthood?

[retiredgoth2]

And no.

I am not starting a fight for its own sake, even though I am aware that one may ensue.

I am a lone parent (of four. Two with SEN)

So is my Special Friend ('SF') She has two children, one with a disability.

We are going to move in together. Neither of our earning capacities will increase. We are both already working as much as is possible. In SF's case, perhaps more than is advisable...

We have done the sums.

Between us we will be (wait for it) 20 k a year worse off.

Yes. I said Twenty Thousand Pounds.

And this does not include the housing benefit SF currently receives.

I will lose all of my widowed parents allowance, and the late Mrs Goth's NHS pension, about 8k. The balance is tax credits, which will reduce to almost zilch.

The only net gain is council tax. Whilst we both lose the 25% reduction, we will only have to pay on one property. This is a gain of about £500.

Now. I don't think I am owed a living. But these sums nearly put us off. There are many others who would be deterred.

I do not know an answer, but feel that this is a flaw in the benefits system, discouraging people from either (a) being honest or (b) living stable lives...

What could be done?

not particularly low rents, but no not London prices either.

Admittedly in central London the LHA (housing benefit) is set at £495 a week for a 2 bedroom place, £330 for Kensington and Chelsea. So yes a single parent with one child would probably get close to the equivalent of £26k gross a year. (I would have got £4000pcm excluding Council Tax Benefit had I lived in Central london)

But if you look at it across the whole country it's simply not the case.

And I still want to know how this £400 a week "working" costs comes into play

Would it make any difference if they could go out to work anyway?

I see pundits from all aprties talking about getting people back t work- get them off IB / JSA /whatever it is....... and unless the Tory Party has a secret database of jobs (for it is them on TV today, though all equally guilty) then I don't know where they will go- there are none here. Not some for skilled workers as they said on TV today but none.Or to be accurate in our city this week as by the paper 11. This area (S Wales) always gets hit anyway by any recession and it didnt have the sheer backbone to survice this one. And of course those wh lose jobs first are the ahrdest to palce- DH who has to be here at certain time becuase of the ASD (I cannot do bedtimes alone), or BIL who is up atm and has a severe disease that necessitates time off often. Totally understandable from emplyer POV, have never felt anger towards DH'sex-employers (although slight annoyance when they reported record profits a few weeks later....) but nonetheless it isn't as simple in real temrs as matching people epr job. Much like this IB thing today: people on DLA will be exempt.Adult DLA is like golddust to get- BIL dopesn't qualify despite needing loo 40 times a day and always being one loo trip from death (colon could burst). DH didn't get it when he was so mentally ill he almost took his own life (years ago) as you needed a signature from a PSych and the Pstch was on long term sick (! hows that for irony?)..... it's too complex for a one size fits all solution. Especially when it comes to single mums- there's a big difference in being a single mum n somewhere prosperous with familya round and childcare on tap,and being a single mum in somewhere like port talbot with no family.

It seems wrong (and perhaps sad for the children) when some families keep the partner secret so as to get more benefits.
(Also dangerous in the case of baby P)

The rent limit here is £420 per calendar month:area that takes in some very poor valleys places, and some city / commuter areas. We don't live in the valleys.

rent limit here for 3 bedroom is £550pcm, county wide it's just under £600.

It's actually gone up from when I was on it - as I had to top up £70 a month for my rent out of my other benefits. Couldn't find any where suitable that would accept LHA (HB) for under the amount set

2 bedroom is £498 pcm local council (and east)
£550pcm for wider area.

Our amount is for a 3 bed

Goodness. That's a lot.

Depressingly, I think any action taken by a government would be to reduce benefits for single parents, rather than the (fairer, imo) option of making things a bit better for couples. I'd not like to see that.

Hey - I'm really pleased to hear your news, however! Wishing you all the best!

I don't know really. Do many people have babies so they can live on benefits and struggle along as a lone parent? Maybe some do.

What would happen if we didn't have quite the same benefit structure for lone parents though - more abortions maybe?

Really don't know tbh

YANBU
There are many ,many parents who live together where the woman claims single parent benefits.
The system itself does encourage it.
I am asahm and would be about a thouand pounds better off a month if I claimed DP has left.

I got married two years ago,I have two children. When dh moved in our joint wage, tax credits and child benefit came to about £75 more a month to what my sole wage, tax credits and child benefit was when it was just me and the kids. But now obviously an extra mouth to feed,Dh, and we have to pay council tax. I didnt before. So yes we are worse off. It is a bit sad that I wAS better off before and it doesnt encourage people to be honest but its just one of those things. I would much rather have Dh with me than have a bit more spending money(not suggesting you would btw)

'There are many ,many parents who live together where the woman claims single parent benefits.
The system itself does encourage it

See, there's aclear difference between what many people are describing here and people who do not declare their true circumstances

One group is trying to get by making I suspect to be ahrd decisions based on pragmatic realism

The second is a bunch of fraudulent criminals

I think you should not look at what others have and feel jealous, what a waste of time. You will never know what it feels to walk in someone else's shoes.

ABetaDad might have experience working with 'budgets' of single parents but the flip side of not paying council tax or rent is that the government get to tell you where you can and can't live.

People have experience of their own situations, they should not worry about what other people are doing unless it is an individual behaving in a criminal way in which case they should report them.

The benefits system is based on working out what is the absolute minimum someone should need to live. It is not the benefits system which is to blame if someone is worse off in work or living with their partner - it is the workplace, eductation, minimum wage laws, tax credit thresholds e.t.c.

I think the OP's point is more about the benefit system not really encouraging re-constitution of lone parent families which, ideally, should be one way of lifting lone parent families from reliance on the state. I get that the OP was not really 'benefit bashing' but some of the responses have been.

I think OP and ABetaDad have highlighted the shortcomings of the benefit system (the way it seems to put a brake on two very important things - forming dual-parent household - if you so wish - and taking the first steps to getting out of the poverty trap through work.).

I don't think either should be interpreted as "benefit-bashing".

Fwiw, these two structural "brakes" have been highlighted for some time and were a key part of the thinking behind the "Sure Start" stuff and the working families tax credits.

Maybe all that can be said is that there is some way to go.

good post cherry

curiosity - fully agree with this.

"ABetaDad might have experience working with 'budgets' of single parents but the flip side of not paying council tax or rent is that the government get to tell you where you can and can't live."

That is why living on benefits is no cushy number. The places people have to live on benefits is not where I or many people would choose to live.

Fwiw, these two structural "brakes" have been highlighted for some time and were a key part of the thinking behind the "Sure Start" stuff and the working families tax credits.

THe problem with WFTC (now WTC) is that they still create this problem - a single income family gets £x in tax credits, but if a second parent goes out to work, they lose tax credits at a rate of 39%, plus income tax at 20% and NI at 11% = 70%. Equally, there's still little motivation to pursue a career per se - simply to go out and find a 16-hour job so as to qualify for WTC.

The only way to truly eliminate these issues is to eliminate the benefits.

Havn't read all the replies but... you should not loose Widowed Parents Allowance as it is not means tested. I got it despite earning a reasonable salary. Also why would you loose money from a private pension ?

The whole system is screwed as far as I can see. I have just been made redundant from a good job. Husband is working, and whilst I was earning i did not expect support, but now I do. What do I get ....... nothing!!, contribution js for 6 months and then 0. Nothing else in terms of rebates. I would be better off if my husband packed in work too.

WPA is not means tested.

I know that.

But it ceases to be paid if you live with another partner.

Ditto the NHS pension, at least the portion of it that accrues to me. There is also a portion payable to each child (£30 a month) that will remain.

ALWAYSLOOKING FOR ANSWERS The nfigure of 26k was meant by the poster as .. the figure you would have to earn to get the same benefite as a single Mum with one child.. this figure is slighlt off (I would say 26k a better figure)

Entilted to works out the 'benefit' of IS, + CTC + CB + HB (for £700/month rent property) + Council Tax of £16,00 per annum. You would have to earn about 24k to get the same amount

I think soem people who get HB really dont take into account just how valuable this benefit is and how much you would have to earn each year to cover it

...though come to think of it, WPA is also taxable.

In effect this has meant that I had no tax allowance on my salary, I will now regain this so will pay about £1000 a year less income tax.

...which I had forgotten in my initial calculation.

Still leaves us 19k a year worse off, though...

(and I reiterate, this figure EXCLUDES housing costs, which will be fairly neutral...)

I was also surprised by the figures when looking into this recently. According to the figures CAB gave me, when I leave my husband my income will be the same as his gross salary is now. Not only will that not have tax/NI deductions but it will only have to cover one adult so bills, groceries etc should be less. Add to that that I won't have to pay council tax and will qualify for NHS low income scheme and free school meals once the dc start school and I will be considerably better off. It seems crazy that just because my income will be benefits rather than me earning it I can get all these things-especially as my income will be more than now(but it's a good thing in my case)