to think that however repulsive and bullying a 12 year old is...

[seeker]

.....people shouldn't use language like "little shit" and 'wankstain" to describe what is, however hideously behaved, a child?

No-one said all abused children are bullies. Some people said most bullies are bullies because they have problems.

i do not hurl abuse at children, i have to walk past these children laughing and whispering about what they have done to my son.

curiosty- do you have a child you have to comfort to sleep every night after being kicked and punched???

no, valhala does sorry. I should have separated the comments in that post really.

curiosity, have you been intensively bullied ever? The 'don't get so upset about a bit of bullying' approach does not help a bullied child 'move on' with their lives, especially when there is no escaping from what can be a violent, frightening and isolating experience for them.

ws is horrible.

but...

I think the fact we are so quick to turn the bullies into the victims "oh he's just a child, oh he's not a nasty person honest, he's just misunderstood/going through a hard time/we should try to find out what is so wrong in his life that he feels the need to take it out on others..." is precisely what's wrong with society.

Bullying is despicable. The individuals that perpitrate it are despicable, whether they are children or not. Bullying should not earn you support and love and understanding, it should earn you the contempt of society. Maybe if these children start to be held accountable for their actions they will realize that bullying others will not earn them positive attention.

thesunshinesbrightly - I'm not sure it matters, but my DS has been bullied a small amount since starting school and both DCs have been through other similar difficulties where I have had to adopt the approach that I mentioned. I suffered really awful bullying, all my younger siblings were bullied at various times and in varying degrees.

I'm not sure there's any value in getting into comparing actual experiences as clearly your opinions will be influenced by both your experiences and your way of doing things as will mine and, since we'll never really know about each others experiences and opinions, how they made us feel and how we coped with them there's little point going down that route.

Suffice it to say, if you are basing your question on an assumption that I have no experience of bullying or of implementing my suggestions you would be wrong.

rantagonist - I never said 'don't get so upset by bullying'. That is not my approach. I was bullied very badly but feel free to make assumptions about my own experiences.

My approach is about supporting a child to try and externalise rather than internalise their feelings about being bullied. It is a strange assumption to make that I have never been bullied or that I wouldn't treat the feelings you have when being bullied seriously. My approach to life generally is to allow and encourage the having of feelings.

WELL CURIOSITY - i take my hat off to you.

you have your way of dealing with it, i have mine.

having to see your child go through been bullied, is heartbreaking, no matter how many excusing for bullies people come up with, i do not feel an ounce of pity.

my child has been asked over and over again "what did you do to make them angry" "oh they didnt realise they were hurting you" all excuses and it makes my blood boil, so really forgive me but i couldnt care less how they feel.

e.g. 'She's such a little shit' - judgement about the person.

'The way she behaved was really shitty' - judgement about the behaviour of the person.

Exactly. Judging the person is a GOOD thing. We need to be more judgemental not less.

When it comes to badly behaved children, there's no point in equivocating.

Why shouldn't we judge the person? Children are quite capable of determing right from wrong.

I am not sure the onus for understanding a bully should be on the parents of the bullied child.

Every ounce of energy I had would go into supporting my kid.

It simply isn't the victim's problem why the perpetrator is doing what they are doing.

someguy - I disagree. Have you heard of labelling theory and self-fulfilling prophecies? Children need guidance about what is right and wrong and children can be taught to believe things are right when they are very, very wrong. They also learn by example.

I had never heard the term, I must lead a sheltered life! Whatever is going on, I find it best to lead by example - if I am polite I can expect it from others. If I am rude I am likely to get the same back.

Of course your energy should go into supporting your child. My dd was bullied by a new girl in her class. My energy went towards my dd but I also spoke to my dd about the fact that she is a beautiful, intelligent, loved, sporty, successful child with a lovely home and lots going for her. The girl who picked on her was hardly any of those things and from what little I know was having a very very difficult time at home. I never told dd that the bully was right but I wanted her to undestand that hurt people sometimes hurt others. I was angry, even livid, but at no point felt hatred for the child that was hurting my child.

their are NO excuse's in the world,kid's know right from wrong, i got bullied at school, and this girl, i still see and she is still as evil. what is her excuse???

what about the children in the news today?? brought up in the wrong area? parents are drunks? drugs maybe??

well the victims are dead!

but i suppose that's ok, because the bullies,well their only children arent they.

ok,ok,ok i'm hiding thread.

I am not saying we excuse the behaviour, but in order to change things we need to understand why and taclke the root cause.

Some kids are little shits though.

some one in my NCT class calls their 2 year old a little shit in front of him

They need discipline and love. Children that grow up in homes like baby P's need to have more than discipline if they are not to grow up dysfunctional.

I have come across one child that I thought was a little shit, infact I went home and told dp I thought there was something evil about him. I could not find one thing to like about him. I then was able to read his child proection file which left me shaking.

I did not stop disciplining this child for this bullying, infact I repeatedly asked for him to be removed from mainstream education. But I did understand or tried to.

I would like to think that if i had walked a mile in his shoes I would not have been as unpleasant as he could be. I doubt it though.

morosky, i was bullied and abused.i am not and have never been, either.

it'sa fact - in schools, naughty children get praised and rewarded.

good children , however are not.

why is that??

my children are good in school, and i have lost count of how many times they have come home and asked me why the naughty kids in their class get stickers etc....and they dont.

how confusing for the good kids.

Thesunshinesbrightly it is not a fact that good children are not rewarded. I teach and spend my whole day rewarding good children, it is something I am passionate about. It may be the case in some schools but you cannot say that about all schools. Every week I send postcards, phone home , make cakes for, give stickers to ... good hard working children. I do not do that for naughty children.

Sunshine I am sure you are a strong charactar, not everyone is. This young man was a baby P who had survived. At what point does that baby become a monster?

no baby p was just that, a baby, my child has been bullied all through his school life punched, kicked, called names, grabbed around the neck etc...my son has cried himslef to sleep every night, when are people going to give up on excuses for bullies and look after the victims.

and the rewards yes i am right, as i have pulled up the teachers on it.

not every bully has problems at home etc....

You have pulled some teachers up on it, not all teachers. I do not reward naught students I reward hardworking well behaved students. My colleagues do the same.

When have I said that you should not look after victims? When have I said you should excuse bullies. I actually said that I wanted the boy removed from mainstream education in order to protect children like your child.

If baby p had survived he may have grown up to be a boy just like the one I referred to. Someone who lived with starvation, beatings, sexual abuse, forced drug taking, humiliation and hatred from those who were supposed to love him.

You are setting me up as a straw man and I am not sure why.

thesunshinesbrightly - excuses are not the same as reasons. There is validity in looking for reasons as it helps to tackle the problem at the source. There's no point looking after victims if you are not doing anything to prevent there being victims in the first place.

You can't tackle bullying without looking at all the angles. The reasons the bully bullies, expectations of good behaviour, support for victims and for bullies to be able to move forward together, the teaching of self-confidence, creating a supportive environment, good communications e.t.c.

I hate the word 'victim' too. A lot about being a 'victim' is in the mind of the person.

i have to listen to my child sob at night! excuse me, if i dont care if the bullies are having problems at home.

i hate the word 'victim' too.A lot about being a 'victim' is in the mind of a person.
can't be bothered to reply to that.