in asking our upstairs neighbour to move their pram?

[KG100]

Our upstairs neighbours share a communal hall way with us and have been using it to store their pram since their son was born. We were quite sympathetic for the first six months or so. After that we politely mentioned it was a problem for us as it was blocking the hallway but they said they had nowhere else to store it.

We let it rest but for the last few months it's been getting slightly wearing as he is now 20 months old and there is no sign of them moving on to a fold up model. We raised it couple of times over the summer, basically asking how much longer they would need it and they were non-committal.

So we asked them if they would mind us storing our bikes there occasionally. They said they wouldn't object and so on Thursday night my husband moved the bikes up in anticipation of going for a bike ride or two over the weekend.

We made sure they could still get their pram in and out but they still went completely berserk. She knocked on the door to ask me to move them and lost it when I said "no - we had agreed this up front". Her husband has also got quite angry and stated that they should have extra rights over the hallway than us.

I can't believe the way they are acting (stomping round upstairs, shouting at me and my husband when we've seen them, even though the bikes are now back in our flat) but not having children I can't judge whether it is really is an ordeal to either get a fold up pram, as we have asked, or alternatively build a shed and store their pram in the front yard. I'm sure all my nephew and nieces (six of them) were using fold up buggies by this age but they insist that they are not suitable for a 20 month old. Am I being really unreasonable? When should they be able to move on to a fold up model? And what does everyone else do when their kids get to this kind of age?

[lucky1979]

One thing with the people saying it won't be forever - what if they have another DC? Then you're going to have it there for at least another 20 months - or an even bigger double one.

They can't justify it, except for they have bene doing it for nearly two years while you obviously can and do store your bikes in your own flat. So you're going to have to decide whether you want to make it into an ongoing grudge match and be at pitched war with them, or try and talk to them again. You're not being unreasonable though.

Alternatively, stick a plant pot on it and pretend it's a feature

[violethill]

YANBU.

Not sure how you deal with this one though, as they sound a bit bonkers. They shouldn't be leaving their pram in the way in the communal area. But as they seem so dead set on doing that, they should at least realise they haven't got a leg to stand on if you decide to leave your wheels there too! They definitely think it's one rule for them and another for you.

I think you just have to turn this into a game of brinkmanship. Leave one bike out there tonight. Leave both bikes tomorrow. Then add a washing machine. Block them in totally. Climb out your back window instead of using the front door.

[KG100]

QuintessentialShadow, No. We honestly don't believe that it is right to store anything in the hallway. Up until two days ago, the most we'd left there was a couple of boxes of beer overnight, which a friend was meant to pick up. They've meanwhile used it to store the pram and building equipment (they had a bit of work). With the building equipment the builders were quite considerate when we asked them to move it. They had some kitchen cabinets in there too, which they moved when my husband pointed out that with us coming in and out (yes, with our bikes again) they may get scratched.

[GirlsAreLOud]

How much of the hallway does it block? Is it a real fire hazard? How does it impede your life on a daily basis, because I think that needs to be what you explain to them.

E.g. - I can't get my bike past it, I can't walk past it with shopping.

[BitOfFun]

More lateral thinking needed here I think. Could you pay some friends to pretend to be drunk and take drugs in the stairwell? That used to happen where I lived. Ask your husband to wee on it? I think they'd start moving it upstairs sharpish then.

[shonaspurtle]

If you live in a flat then you don't buy a non-collapsing pram. Who knows what was going through their minds at the time but that was a bonkers decision.

[violethill]

Do a turd on it? (Following on from BOF's suggestions)

[KG100]

QuintessentialShadow, Absolutely, there may be something we're not seeing but then the reasonable thing would be to point this out to us, not scream at us. As for being inconsiderate, is it not inconsiderate of them to completely ignore our feelings on this? How long do you expect us to put up with it? Really should we have to deal with this indefinitely because they have special rights because they have a baby? At what point is it not a "baby" any more but a toddler? Should we have this till he's at school? Because at the moment they really don't give any indication as to how long they intend to do this.

[scottishmummy]

having lived in tenement flats,others had buggies stored in their own flat.not hulking big carts in the hall

[LifeOfKate]

I don't think you're being unreasonable, I would be pissed off 20 months later too. I don't understand why you would buy a big pram if you lived in a flat though, without other appropriate storage. I don't agree with not keeping it in a shed, I have a couple of friends in Norway in blocks of flats, and the general trend is that these flats have communal sheds for all the prams in the buildings... I've seen my friend use a pram + carrycot from out of the shed in -12 weather with no damp/cold problems. I guess it depends on the shed though.

anyway, the main thing I was going to comment on though, is that I think they are having you on with it not being foldable. It's pretty rare to find prams (obviously apart from Silver Cross types) nowadays that don't fold up, it seems like it's more of a case of them not being arsed to fold it up and down when they want to use it. I've just had a look at the Brio range of prams, and all fold. It's fair enough not to be bothered to fold up and down if the pram was in their space, but it isn't, and they are being unreasonable.

[KG100]

BitOfFun, violethill, it's covered in sick and pretty grim already, we were going to give it away of Freecycle, but not sure anyone would take it in its current state!

[violethill]

On a serious note, it does sound as though they fall into that category of people who think popping a baby out bestows all sorts of special rights on them. That seems to be the only explanation, given that they kick up a fuss if you leave your bikes there.

I think you just need to be very direct with them. Say that you believe the hallway should be kept completely clear, because it's a communal area, but that if they insist on leaving their pram there, then they will have to accept that it works both ways, and that you'll leave your belongings there when you want.

Hey - how about telling them you're expecting twins, and that you're sure they won't mind a twin pram in the hallway too.

[Northernlurker]

It's not unreasonable at all to expect them to keep their pram in their flat. Nobody held a gun to their haed and forced them to buy an uber-pram - or live in an upstairs flat with a baby come to that. So it's heavy to take upstairs - tough, they either put up with it or but something not heavy instead. The op has been considerate and patient for nearly two years and now she's fed up. Fair enough imo.

If you deeds say no storage in the communal area then that means NO STORAGE EVEN OF PRAMS!

[mazzystartled]

You've not responded to any of my suggestions (huff emoticon)

how do you usually get on? because if this is the only thing you disagree over then you are lucky

but then i reckon if you got on better this wouldn't be som much of an issue

have you looked at your leasehold/freehold arrangements?

you need to convey to them how much of a problem it causes you

but maybe have a think and see if it really does matter as much as you think

[KG100]

GirlsAreLOud, we've gone through all that, blocks our way, can't get bags in and out. Their attitude is that they get round it (you have to move the pram back and forth to get by but it's possible but a pain). They don't have any give.

[TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied]

I actually think YABU a bit. They need to put their pram somewhere and you don't have children so I think you should just be considerate of it. There's no need for them to shout at you but as long as you can get round the pram, which you have managed to do for the last 20 months, you should just accept that they have a baby and it's difficult living upstairs with a baby anyway.

Just leave it at that. I suspect you are being a little pernickety.

20 months is still not very old, they have probably spent a lot of money on that pram or someone has gone to the trouble of buying them it so it is their right to use it.

A 20 month old would not be lying down in a pram- they would climb out, so that doesn't add up.

If you think it is ok for you to put bikes there, you can cope with their pram being there a little longer.

It's just common decency.

[HeadFairy]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to take it upstairs every time they go in and out. I've been there and it is back killing. However they are very unreasonable on not accepting that a) a giant pram is unsuitable for a shared hallway and b) that they are they only people who can put things in the hall.

I lived in a very similar situation, except I was upstairs. We deliberately bought a folding pushchair (a Bebeconfort Loola - suitable from birth) so we didn't block the hallway, and my neighbour was also able to leave her bike there. The hallway was no wider than the average Victorian house entrance hall, so a compromise is possible. Even when we switched to our P&T we folded it up and pushed it against the wall. I used to come downstairs with ds in a sling, open the pushchair and then put him in until he could sit up unaided, then he used to sit on the floor while I put the pushchair up - once he could walk he would stand and wait while I popped open the pushchair - it's no big deal.

I also think your neighbours have handled it badly by shouting, it's really not necessary. I do see what QS and others are saying when they disagree with you OP, but I do think it should be possible to come to a compromise without shouting and recriminations.

[scottishmummy]

folding brio you might want to turn turn off the cheesy music.video shows how to fold the buggy without small taking seat off

anyway how do they fold it to go in pram for car

or consider solicitors letter,you have been reasonable enough

[Ivykaty44]

Get the local fire officer in - it is a health and safety issue and the people upstairs would be at risk along with the downstairs flat.

That way he can set down the rules and that should be that - if they persist they can be prosecuted.

[KG100]

Sorry mazzystartled, keep meaning to respond but then get distracted. Relationships are usually cordial but not great. She's been rude to delivery men who called for us (and indicently once she made a huge fuss because a courier wanted to leave a small package in the damned hall!) and was quite rude to my husband on the morning of his nan's funeral (which went down a treat, it was about bins, the bin men ripped one of our bags when they took the rubbish , and yes he told her what was going on, and she still went on at him, and I cleaned up the mess the bin men made straight away) and a few other little things. But we've tried really hard to be sensible and get on with things as we realise that we have to live with each other but this, they've really blown out of proportion. They do quite a few things in contravention of the freehold, and this would be one of them, but we don't bring them up as they don't bother us. But this one does, hence we've repeatedly tried to raise it.

[scottishmummy]

solicitor letter.did you look at the video of folding the pram.can be done

[Niknak21]

I hope they come over later and things move towards a satisfactory outcome.

[KG100]

TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied, but doesn't it work both ways? If they think it's ok to put their pram there, then surely they should be able to put up with our bikes. Surely that's common decency?

[scottishmummy]

yes,the cannot use communal hall as storage but complain if you do too

one rule for themselves another for you