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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be so peeved that we spend approx £1400 a month on childcare

675 replies

couture1 · 17/09/2009 16:44

I know I have to pay for the service but it leaves me with little left over each month and we need to salaries to get by. I dont want to give up work as 1 cant afford to and 2 Im hoping that when 3dc are at school in 3 years time we will be better off each month - but how do we manage until then?

Rant rant rant

OP posts:
diddl · 20/09/2009 18:16

Isn´t it annoying when you wake up stressing about stuff in the early hours?

You can do flip all about it and you´re tired for the rest of the day!

Quattrocento · 20/09/2009 18:16

Honestly Fox, I am there in the trenches with you. Really I am. I was worried about it all sounding a bit stressful and horrid. If it's only once or twice a year I won't worry. But if it gets any more than that, you will get more back up

The nation needs a force of territorial nannies. I'm thinking a reserve force, ready to leap into action at the first sign of mumps or overseas business trips.

Do you have any willing grannies on hand Fox? They are good for emergencies.

foxinsocks · 20/09/2009 18:20

oh I totally agree Quat. If this happened all the time, think you'd be visiting me in the Priory! No, I can vividly remember the last time this happened and it was around a year ago (just found out there was a hideous lawsuit landed on us, very good friend's wedding the next day and I came down with stomach flu!).

No, we have no willing grannies but wonderful friends (SAHMs ) who do help out loads and we are eternally grateful to them for their help!

Yes, I couldn't agree more! We need like the TA of nannies. Ready and willing to step in at the drop of a hat!

ssd · 20/09/2009 18:33

by ormirian to me earlier

well ssd - lucky you. As a wohm there is no way we could afford that 'californian dream' holiday. Even with both of us working. So perhaps that tells you why some families have to work.

in reply, I have worked since ds1 was 9 weeks old BUT always around dh's hours so ds's were either with me or dh

luck doesn't come into it

OrmIrian · 20/09/2009 20:37

OK, if you say so. However it doesn't alter the fact that there are many many women who do have to work just to stay afloat. It's not a choice anymore than it's a choice

OrmIrian · 20/09/2009 20:39

.... bloody laptop eating my words for me...

anymore that it's a choice to love someone who doesn't end up earning a lot of money.

OrmIrian · 20/09/2009 20:52

BTW ssd - that 'if you say so' sounded more snippy than it was meant to be

bacon · 21/09/2009 01:14

Just took off my tracksuit (which is two sizes too small) and stubbed out my fag in my empty can of stella.....and after reading all these comments I'd like to say that my mum went out of her way everyday to make my childhood happy and the majority of the time it was calm parenting with love and not much money. And I see that many parents just arnt like that anymore, its all about "my happiness". I totally understand how some mums cant face staying home all day because its bloody hardwork and a thankless job too and yes, I dont love it all the time but if hubby is working all the hours then it doesnt make sence nor like I said before want stress of balancing them both - There are no rights and wrongs but its the children that come first because its their time now, we've had our childhood. God, really do I have time to work? no! Inbetween listening to Jeremy Vine, Radio 4, doing my nails, ladies who lunch, endless hours on forums, making delicious food, walking up and down the lanes picking "free" fruits and reading the newspapers inbetween playing with the children and on the endless feeding wheel....I think I'll stay at home (obv brain dead to some!)

violethill · 21/09/2009 06:40

Not as judgemental as some posts, bacon, but the implication is still there that somehow if you go to work you aren't putting your children first.

Every parent I know puts their children first. Working or non-working. Oh and dads, as well as mums.

You are happy with your choice - fine. Because it's your choice ultimately - what you want to do, every bit as much as someone who works. (Disclaimer: I do realise that not everyone is fortunate to have a choice whether to work or stay home). I know plenty of mums who gave up work because they wanted to stay home, not because there is any evidence that it is 'better' (whatever that may mean!)

You also imply that many women choose to work because staying home is so hard. Wrong. FWIW, I found my times at home on ML absolutely fine, and easier than combining with work. I returned to work simply because it doesn't have to be an 'either or' situation. It is perfectly possible to continue to work, with all the benefits that brings in terms of self esteem, interest, long term gain etc (and money, though that wasn't a driving force for me as it all went to nursery for a few years) and to be the primary carers in your children's life, providing them with a happy childhood.

Those of us with older kids see it all the time - happy, bright, well adjusted young people with parents who have both remained in careers. Of course, there are plenty of bright and well adjusted young people around too who don't have two parents who have remained in careers. The point is, one is not better than the other. And if you give up work expecting to see some end result as in a 'happier' or 'better adjusted' young person, you'll be disappointed. Do it if you can afford it and you want to, or if you don't like your job, but don't do it expecting it to be any better for your children.

ssd · 21/09/2009 07:58

OrmIrian, I do know what you mean

the only reason I mentioned our fab holiday was to compare it with Butlins and let Fairymum know that Butlins won for my youngest! (although it sure didn't do it for me and dh...)

we went on that holiday as we came into some back pay, well quite a lot of back pay. and we decided to blow it on a great holiday as we hadn't been abroad for 13 yrs and the kids hadn't been anywhere. if was a complete one off, something to be remembered in our old age

just to clarify, dh and I are working but pretty poor, he's on £20k and I'm on less than £5k. so we are a family who needs to work, but I've always worked around the kids school and dh's hours. TBH I think we'd be better off if we split up financially, quite depressing really, but thats another thread!

I was just annoyed at Faiymum and her Butlins comment, we went there for the kids and they loved it, we hated it!, but I think when the kids are young you go on holiday to places they like and if you can't afford 2 weeks abroad or centre parks, then Butlins does the job fine.

anyway, hope you have a good day

ssd · 21/09/2009 08:16

violethill, sorry to bang on but I have to disagree with you there

as you said, we all have to do what is right for us and our families.

so, (with that in mind all along), I have always worked around my dh's hours and have always been around for my kids during the day.

I think always having their mum to take and collect them from nursery when they were 3 and then from school is better for us as a family.

and I'm finding as my kids get older it is usually possible to tell apart kids who have had their mums at home for them since they were born as opposed to kids who have spent large amounts of time in daycare then in the after school clubs. I hate to say it but maybe its the SAHM's who spend a lot of time with their kids who notice.

so sorry, I have to disagree with you.

sarah293 · 21/09/2009 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

francagoestohollywood · 21/09/2009 09:26

Oh I so wished my mum had kept working when I was a teenager... she was always on my case .

I disagree ssd. Most of my friends work full time. Some of their children are now pre teens and no, you can't tell the difference. They are lovely and well, just children with their own personality.
The only disturbed child I ever met is someone who has been too much involved in her parents extremely bitter and extremely badly managed divorce.

OrmIrian · 21/09/2009 09:29

Yes, I have yet to meet a disturbed child who has been in childcare. I think that would come from other factors regardless of whether parents worked or not.

OrmIrian · 21/09/2009 09:29

Yes, I have yet to meet a disturbed child who has been in childcare. I think that would come from other factors regardless of whether parents worked or not.

francagoestohollywood · 21/09/2009 09:31

Exactly.

Oh I meet lots of badly educated children (Italian parks are a nightmare)... but again, I blame the parents.

ssd · 21/09/2009 09:55

I never used the word "disturbed"

I said it is sometimes possible to tell the difference between kids who have spent a lot of time in daycare and kids who have spent most of their time at home with their mums (or dads)

francagoestohollywood · 21/09/2009 10:02

But then what is this basic difference then? What's the common denominator?

BonsoirAnna · 21/09/2009 10:24

I know a child whose parents were absent for up to a month at a time and who was left with her nanny for those extended periods. She is seriously disturbed and the school tried to address this with the parents, who would hear nothing and have moved the child to another school....

francagoestohollywood · 21/09/2009 10:35

Anna. That is extreme. Never come across anything similar.

OrmIrian · 21/09/2009 10:58

That is more or less what happened to my dad. His parents were in Nigeria when he was a child and she came back to England to have him and then went back to Africa. Her place was seen as with her DH not her children. Dad was brought up by a nanny and his prep school. She was 'stuck' in England when she came for a visit and war broke out - she viewed it as a misfortune. Mum's childhood wasn't much better.

The result was that my parents were very loving and very involved - didn't stop them sending DB to boarding school though But I don't see that compares in any way to the majority of working parents who use childcare during the working week.

blueshoes · 21/09/2009 11:13

Agree OrmIrian. Majority of working parents, even those with extremely busy careers, are doing the best they can by their children. In fact, if either one comes on mn to debate childraising and other issues on mn, that pretty defines them as a caring and involved parent.

What lucky children they have.

I'd be amazed to be able to tell the difference between children raised in such households with 2 working parents versus those with one SAHP. Quoting extreme examples in either category is not helpful as there usually is more going on in the family than is purely due to the use or non-use of normal childcare during the week.

stepaway · 21/09/2009 14:15

AnnieLobeseder

i guess my point is WHY you should take home as much money as the nursery staff?

the nursery staff who take home more than you either:

  • have no children OR
  • they have children who can be taken to work (ie the nursery) OR
  • they have alternative cheap/free childcare for their children (e.g.. a family member)

You have a salary and happen to have a large expense which reduces your take-home.
You have chosen to spend your salary in this way. Sure, some countries have cheaper childcare options than the UK. This can only be achieved through:

  • greater use of extended family as carers(not possible for many of us, including me)
  • higher child-to-staff ratios
  • gov't subsidisation of nurseries(in effect getting those without children to subsidise WOHM's childcare costs).

I can't see any other options. I personally don't favour the last option. What about everyone else?

ssd · 21/09/2009 15:55

personally, I have found children in daycare a lot of the week can sometimes be a lot more attention seeking than kids with mums/dads at home, presumably because they are not getting as much one to one attention

but maybe these days being a bit more pushy and attention seeking isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't know, its just an observation I have made

I often wonder if I did the right thing regards working with my kids. But seeing them at home just now watching a bit of tv and reading and eating cereal makes me glad they are not at an after school club waiting for me to collect them. But I guess if they were they'd soon get used to it, although I know what they'd prefer.

blueshoes · 21/09/2009 16:20

stepaway, the inequity is due to working parents having to pay for childcare out of taxed income.

In many countries, childcare costs are fully tax deductible. I don't understand why that is so difficult a concept to implement in UK. So much simpler and administratively less cumbersome than the trifling, perplexing and elusive childcare vouchers.

That way, working parents only get tax relief to the extent they are paying taxes. So in a sense, they are paying their own way. Sure, the state gets less tax out of working parents. But then the state wins because some second income earners that would otherwise be priced out of the workforce would be able to afford to go to work, with their taxes thrown into the pot which would otherwise not have been.