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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - sexist science homework

519 replies

Litchick · 17/09/2009 09:06

Lst night's science homework was to write a short passage about a famous scientist, what they discovered and its applications today.

Fine except that each question said 'he'.

Eg what was his name? What did he discover?

DD and I chose Marie Curie and changed everything to she.

AIBU to make the point on the prep sheet or just touchy?
Does it matter? It felt to me like it does. Grrrr

OP posts:
corriefan · 21/09/2009 16:05

No I don't think it should be used but language is constantly evolving by its usage. 'He' as a generic is becoming redundant and rightly so, but you cannot ban outdated terms, they just stop being used.

MrsMerryHenry · 21/09/2009 16:09

Yes of course language is in a constant state of flux, that goes without saying. And I didn't say anything about banning its usage, just that it shouldn't be used. So we're basically saying the same thing!

questioneverything · 21/09/2009 16:19

The only science females need to know is the chemical reaction between fairy liquid and water.

And the correct temperature of well made tea.

WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS

corriefan · 21/09/2009 16:19

Lovely. I just tend to feel sorry for teachers who get all this outrage aimed at them because I am one. I can't see myself making that mistake but who knows?
I got told off for telling a child a tadpole looks a bit like a fish when looking at the physical changes in the frog life cycle during teaching practice for Y1. It is quite a minefield trying to say the 'right' thing all the time. Sorry to go off topic.

MrsMerryHenry · 21/09/2009 16:25

The only person I ever knew who referred to women as 'females' was a man who was completely and utterly socially inept.

Nuff said.

corrie - what were they expecting you to say to a 5 yo about what a tadpole looks like? I think 'looks a bit like a fish' is no crime.

ZephirineDrouhin · 21/09/2009 16:34

lolol question everything.

That's an odd one, corriefan. What do you think they wanted you to say it looked like? A sperm?

corriefan · 21/09/2009 16:40

Ha ha! sperm would have gone down well... not. I got told off because it is an "amphibian not a fish actually" and the children might have got confused.

MrsMerryHenry · 21/09/2009 16:43

But of course. You'd have ruined their A Level Biology results in later years, corrie, how irresponsible of you.

MrsMerryHenry · 21/09/2009 16:45

Anyway you didn't say it was a fish, you said it merely looked 'a bit' like one. Snakes look 'a bit' like eels but they're not fish, either.

ZephirineDrouhin · 21/09/2009 16:46

I see. Still, the possibility of a little phylum confusion seems pretty harmless compared to the possibility of coming out of a science class believing it's really all just for the boys.

stillstanding · 21/09/2009 16:50

Is the general consensus here that we have to use "he and she" everywhere? Is this practical?

corriefan · 21/09/2009 16:54

Well just as I'll never forget a frog is an amphibian, after reading this thread I'll be extra careful not to inadvertantly use sexist material. Hopefully this child's teacher will be too when she gets the amended homework back.

MrsMerryHenry · 21/09/2009 16:58

stillstanding, I don't think there is a consensus here, except to say that we all seem to agree that 'he' is no longer acceptable.

msrisotto · 21/09/2009 17:01

personally, i don't see anything wrong with s/he as in my head at least, that sounds like she slash he!

stillstanding · 21/09/2009 17:04

But the alternatives are "one" or plural which can't always be practical. And "he or she" can be very clumsy.

In actual fact it is quite tricky to deal with this in RL.

In the context of the OP science question I don't see why putting in the "she" would have been onerous and I can see that in the context of the question it was actually quite important to do so.

But in general language I struggle with this sometimes and don't find it particularly offensive when a "he" is used generically. And I do think that it can be used generically.

UnquietDad · 21/09/2009 17:08

Mrs MH - skimmed over your earlier linguistic diversion. Sorry.

I speak French and German and a little Spanish. I never heard any feminist remonstrations about "man" while I lived and worked in Germany, although I believe there have been attempts by the extreme wing to replace it with "frau" (chortle, chortle - my sides). As you say, this misses the point that it is nothing to do with "Der Mann", the word for a man.

I mentioned earlier the oddity about French mixed groups always being "ils" regardless of the relative numbers of m/f members.

"One" does sound a bit poncey and there's the additional problem that it can't really refer back to a noun: "Name a famous scientists and what one discovered, and what one's achievements were, etc." doesn't sound right at all.

MrsMerryHenry · 21/09/2009 17:12

So glad you responded to my linguistic diversion, UQD, I was rather impressed with it myself

Haven't read whole thread so missed your 'ils' point, but I recall being peeved by this at age 13 in French class.

I wonder if somewhere in the world there exists a language that is entirely gender inclusive.

ZephirineDrouhin · 21/09/2009 17:47

stillstanding, "one" is not an alternative here because you are referring to a specific person. As various people have already mentioned on this thread, "they" is an acceptable alternative with a long history.

I think you need to look at each case on its own merits to decide whether a word is appropriate or not. In this case, particularly given the shortage of girls opting for science degrees and careers, it seems very obviously inappropriate.

CheerfulYank · 21/09/2009 17:50

yeah, how hard is writing s/he? Come on now!

stillstanding · 21/09/2009 18:57

I agree, Zephirine - it is important to look at the context and whether it is appropriate and in this case it wasn't.

CheerfulYank, not hard at all to write s/he and in many cases that too may be appropriate (as in the present case) but it wouldn't be in any prose where the elegance of language is important.

LadyMidnightMT · 21/09/2009 21:10

Christ. Of all the injustices could choose to get pissed off about in such a cruel world, I think this should be bottom of the list. It's one paper from one school. The fact some people are so outraged because of it testifies to how far the world has moved on. Hasn't this horse been flagellated enough? It's died for our sins already!

LadyMidnightMT · 21/09/2009 21:13

Hang on, where was it decided that girls are opting out of science degrees and on what evidence?

UnquietDad · 21/09/2009 21:42

As a pedant, I'd say that if you really want to construct a new non-gender-specific form, s/he looks cumbersome - (s)he is surely better.

The slash implies a choice between two things, and it's not a choice between s and he. (Sorry, that is so hair-splitting...)

LadyMidnightMT · 21/09/2009 22:22

Yeah. I personally would only like to see it used on forms and officialdom stuff. Please lets keep creative writing a PC free zo0ne. Vive la Houellebecq (just bastardised french grammer I know. That'll learn me!>

MrsMerryHenry · 21/09/2009 22:22

UQD, I think that works in a written context, but it can't be represented in speech.