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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - sexist science homework

519 replies

Litchick · 17/09/2009 09:06

Lst night's science homework was to write a short passage about a famous scientist, what they discovered and its applications today.

Fine except that each question said 'he'.

Eg what was his name? What did he discover?

DD and I chose Marie Curie and changed everything to she.

AIBU to make the point on the prep sheet or just touchy?
Does it matter? It felt to me like it does. Grrrr

OP posts:
Original poster
Litchick · 17/09/2009 09:29

To be fair Gmum, it didn't have to be anyone famous...it was more someone whose discovery still has contemporary significance iyswim.

Sorry, I mislead there.

OP posts:
LovelyTinOfSpam · 17/09/2009 09:32

mary anning would be an interesting one to do - she sells sea shells on the sea shore

pigletmania · 17/09/2009 09:33

I know that its not right but its normally the case, as someone on here pointed out there aer more male scientists, you did the right thing, I would have done the same thing too, but not to inform the school. Nothing to get too worked up about though.

UnquietDad · 17/09/2009 09:34

Nothing wrong with doing a female scientist and I don't imagine this will be as earth-shatteringly unexpected for the teacher as you seem to think it will be.

And "he" is the correct generic, whether you like it or not. It's not necessarily sexist. The "he" referring to a male person and the generic "he" are different grammatical concepts which just happen to be spelt the same - they are homonyms.

Pyrocanthus · 17/09/2009 09:35

YANBU. Probably what you've done, changing 'he' to 'she' each time, makes your point perfectly well.

GrendelsMum · 17/09/2009 09:35

Oh, fair enough!

I'll complain about the idea that research has to have any useful outcome instead! As far as I know, my aunt spends her days as a scientist "imagining different kinds of water". She's a professor, so presumably she's quite good at it by now...

Portofino · 17/09/2009 09:36

I'm liking the name "Trotula" - one for the baby name threads? Sorry for being flippant!

RubberDuck · 17/09/2009 09:36

piglet: It's true that women are underrepresented in science, but not to the degree that everyone assumes, especially in some fields.

Remember that science papers are usually listed as surname and initial so you have no idea whether it was a male or female contributing to that research. The people getting the rewards and recognition may be predominantly male, but that isn't reflecting the true contribution of women in science.

Original poster
Litchick · 17/09/2009 09:36

Anning and Franklin are, I'm sure, only the tip of the iceberg.

OP posts:
tingler · 17/09/2009 09:37

"And "he" is the correct generic, whether you like it or not."

Really? According to what?

Original poster
Litchick · 17/09/2009 09:38

Lord Gmum, that sounds incredible.

As a wrieter myself, I do believe that tru creativity is actually to be found in science.

Sorry, I digress.

OP posts:
LovelyTinOfSpam · 17/09/2009 09:39

I do think it matters. It may be the correct thing to always use "he" even when it could be either gender - but like it or not these days they/their is used instead most of the time, and for good reason IMO.

Pyrocanthus · 17/09/2009 09:40

Very, very, old guides to English usage.

GrendelsMum · 17/09/2009 09:43

When I pushed her for more information, she explained that she thought about if water had a different sort of hydrogen atom in it, how it would behave differently. I can only assume that tea might taste less nice, or something of the sort

slug · 17/09/2009 09:44

I really object to 'he' being the correct generic. It implies that male is the normal state of things and by definition female is the abnormal. As any biologist (anc castor Semanyta can tell you) the natural state for the human is actually the female, not the male. So the grammartarians have got it wrong

GrendelsMum · 17/09/2009 09:44

And I agree with Spam - yes, it's 'correct' to use 'he', and I would probably do that in a formal piece of writing, but for children's homework it would be 'they' all the way. In fact, 'they' would be more accurate, since science is not really a solo endeavour.

CMOTdibbler · 17/09/2009 09:46

As a female physicist, I've faced constant amazement at my chosen career, even though I'm in a general sector where 10% or so are female.

Irene Joliot-Curie produced the first artificial radioactive material, which led to huge improvements in cancer treatment. She's always eclipsed by her parents though

weegiemum · 17/09/2009 09:47

What about the astronomers Henrietta Leavitt or Annie Jump Cannon? They were employed as "computers" as that's all women were allowed to do in those days.

Leavitt discovered Cepheid Variables, which are used as "standard candles" for judging interstellar distances, Cannon invented a model of stellar classification that we still use!

pinkthechaffinch · 17/09/2009 09:48

nO yanbu, what about Ada Lovelace? Any many others.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 17/09/2009 09:51

grendel H30 is "heavy water" and has some intersting properties, if I remember correctly.

I would love to do a job like your aunt's but by brain cells aren't quite up to it I'm afraid! I wanted to work at cern...

Pyrocanthus · 17/09/2009 09:52

No they haven't slug, they're well ahead of the game: New Hart's Rules (2009): 'It is now generally regarded as old-fashioned or sexist to use 'he' in reference to a person of unspecified sex... The alternative 'her or she' is often preferred, and in formal contexts is probably the best solution, but can become tiresomely long-winded when used frequently. Use of 'they' in this sense is becoming generally accepted both in speech and in writing'.

Not political correctness, not dumbing down; it's part of the permanent evolution of the language.

Pyrocanthus · 17/09/2009 09:53

Sorry, 2005 not 2009.

tingler · 17/09/2009 09:55

Nice one Pyrocanthus.

StealthPolarBear · 17/09/2009 09:57

UQD I'm sure you are right but the class isn't likely to know that. They will take it at face value.

We once played that party game where you put a famous person on a sticky note on your head and then have to question everyone else to guess it. My dad created them and tried to make them in some way link to each person. My female cousin is studying to be a doctor, but got Florence Nightingale - my dad was apologetic and said he couldn't think of any famous female doctors - and neither could any of the rest of us (that we'd be likely to guess anyway!). Although he didn't say anything to me - I was Pythagorus!

EightiesChick · 17/09/2009 10:01

The use of the generic masculine ('he') to indicate either a man or a woman is not an absolute rule of grammar, merely a cultural standard of language use that was once acceptable but has now changed (especially since prescriptive 18th century grammar has had its day in favour of more descriptive approaches). You will find that such linguistic scholars as David Crystal and Deborah Cameron support this and justify it more fully. Don't make me post references, now... So let's have no more of this idea that it's the 'grammatically correct' thing to do.

[thumbs up to Pyrocanthus who got there first - I just couldn't not put a word in too]

I have lots more to say on this but have to rush - will return later...