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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So does anyone else find the term 'artificial feeding' in relation to the use of formula milk a bit irritating?

416 replies

bangandthedirtisgone · 15/09/2009 19:22

Or is it just me?

OP posts:
GColdtimer · 16/09/2009 16:06

Really don't understand why this thread has made you so angry princesstoadstool. There was one post I can see was objectionable, but I don't think there has been any agression or name calling other than that has there?

GColdtimer · 16/09/2009 16:13

completely agree milamae

PrincessToadstool · 16/09/2009 16:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PrincessToadstool · 16/09/2009 16:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MilaMae · 16/09/2009 16:29

So what is the point Princess?

MilaMae · 16/09/2009 16:32

I think we're all entitled to put perfectly valid points across are we not. The fact they don't go along with what you think or want to think does not make them less worthy.

GColdtimer · 16/09/2009 16:39

Well, I could say the same thing princesstoadstool. for example i completely disagree with "what babies are fed from birth matter a helluva lot more than what they are fed for the rest of their lives" but the poster is entilted to her opinion - doesn't make me angry but I am entitld to question it surely?

Not sure why it would make you so angry.

FaintlyMacabre · 16/09/2009 16:51

I said this before, but think I might say it again: 'Why do people find it so difficult to accept that what an infant is fed during its most rapid period of growth and development (apart from in utero) makes a difference to its health? We all stress over aspartame/transfats etc, which make up a tiny proportion of a child's diet, but don't seem to believe that their sole source of nutrition for 6 months is that important.'

you · 16/09/2009 16:53

I don't think anyone here has said it's not important

FaintlyMacabre · 16/09/2009 17:01

No, sorry, I was using it in a slightly different context earlier. But my basic point stands. The role of the sole source of nutrition for 6 months is not seen as important as things that are, lets face it, going to make up a tiny proportion of most people's diet post weaning. (ie McDonalds etc)

MilaMae · 16/09/2009 17:01

Exactly you, nobody has denied that but just said that actually what they consume for the next 18,30,50 years might actually be just as important as lets face it 50 years is a loooong time but 6 months is a nats breath in a child's life.

LeonieSoSleepy · 16/09/2009 17:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MilaMae · 16/09/2009 17:06

Faintly if Mcds makes up a tiny proportion of ones diet then really there is no need to worry. That's the whole point if fat etc make up a large part of your diet post weaning you are going to have health problems regardless of how you were fed in the 1st 6 months.

MilaMae · 16/09/2009 17:09

It can set the stage but it isn't going to save you if you eat crap continuously and get buggar all exercise. Having said that genes have a big part to play too. Genes,exercise and diet are all far more important in extending life surely than what you were fed in the 1st 6 months of life.

sabire · 16/09/2009 17:10

"The fact is if you don't manage to breast feed your child it is NOT the end of the world regarding health,your child is NOT doomed"

Because of course what bf advocates are saying is that it is the end of the world if you can't breastfeed, and ff children are indeed doomed.

Oh hang on - nobody's actually saying that are they?

Like nobody.

But so much easier to invent an unreasonable, patently stupid argument and then attack it, than challenge what bf advocates are actually saying, which is that breastfeeding improves health in the long, medium and short term, and for some individuals may prove extremely important.

I think this sort of tactic (setting up a false argument and then attacking it) is known as "straw man argument" and it's used all the time in the bf/ff debate, mainly by those people who want to discredit bf advocates.

Straw man argument (from Wikipedia)

  1. Person A has position X.

[Say - makes a case that bf is important for babies and that the majority of women could breastfeed if they were given appropriate support]

  1. Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents position Y.

[Say - "All women can and should breastfeed and that children who are not breastfed are doomed to inevitable ill-health.]

Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:

1.Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.[1]

[For example, using anecdotal evidence to prove that some women are unable to breastfeed and that non-breastfed children are sometimes healthier than children breastfed from birth]

3.Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments - thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]

[So if one person on a thread implies that it's selfish not to try to breastfeed, this opinion is attributed to the majority of those defending breastfeeding, as though this was a majority opinion.]

  1. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

[Ah yes - the 'bf nazi', or 'bf militia', who slings her tits all over the place while bf her 6 year old twins whilst simultaneously casting the evil eye at any mother who dares to get a bottle out for her baby.

5.Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.

[ie most people can breastfeed becomes everyone can breastfeed; breastfeeding can reduce the risk of a range of common and serious illnesses becomes breastfeed your baby and they're guaranteed perfect health for life, even if you stuff them with lard every day afterwards; breastfeeding makes a difference to babies becomes breastfeeding is the be all and end all of good parenting and women who don't do it should be ashamed of themselves]

  1. Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.
girlsyearapart · 16/09/2009 17:10

Yes I don't like the term artificial feeding at all.
A friend of mine has inverted nipples and would've needed an operation to get her to be able to bf. After a v difficult complicated preg and a c sec she didn't want anymore intervention and ff her child.

A nurse came into the room and said to very recently post natal friend
'Oh so you're the one who is artificially feeding her child?'
In a very judgy and unpleasant way.
This was in Australia where they are very pro bf ing.

Just thought that was a bit sad as very often a woman is upset about her ultimate decision to ff. Calling it 'artificial' doesn't help.

Prunerz · 16/09/2009 17:10

I thought it was pretty incontrovertible that the period from conception to about 2 was utterly vital in terms of nutrition and optimising development?

The discussion about whether 'optimal' is something you can fiddle with is interesting (I think).

LaurieFairyCake · 16/09/2009 17:11

I have yet to figure out why people bother arguing (rather than just trying to help)about FF versus BF.

Do either if you want.

Don't think yourself superior for any reason as frankly it will just bite you in the ass.

Make sure your baby eats at some point so it lives.

How hard can it be?

you · 16/09/2009 17:13

I think the answer here is obvious and everyone is just being deliberately facetious, as always happens in these threads

Of course breastfeeding is the very very best thing to feed a baby. I don't think anyone here has said otherwise, though obviously it's not as common knowledge outside MN as we would like to believe.

I think we can all agree that what you're fed in the first six months of life will be of more importance than what you're fed during any other 6 month period during that life. However, I doubt it is more important than what someone is fed throughout that life, ie) being breastfed for 6 months does not equate to a healthy life if after those 6 months you are decidedly unhealthy in your choices.

Does that make sense?
Should I go lie down?

ra29needsabettername · 16/09/2009 17:15

yes breast milk is absolutely better than ff for babies in many different ways. Obviously. There is lots of evidence that proves this.

Still think using the term artificial feeding is insensitive and horrible. Why dont we go further and call it crap feeding or inadequate feeding or depriving your baby feeding? These may be fairly accurate terms too

you · 16/09/2009 17:17

Well I agree. As I said earlier...

I think the reason that people tend not to like the term artificial feeding is not because of those particular words but the connotation implied when they are used.

I had to (and am currently having to) ff/af my daughter or she would be dead. Not that I knew this when I was pregnant, so I fully intended to breastfeed- full support of DH, DM etc. When it didn't work out I was utterly devastated, and still am, and honestly the first 3 months of her life were probably the worst of my life.

Anyway, my point is, if I went to have her weighed by the HV and she turned around and asked me (nicely) if I was breastfeeding or artificially feeding I can't say that I'd think anything of it particularly. But that's not the way in which the term is used, is it? Especially not on MN

It is, generally, used in a derogatory and judgy fashion which is bound to get people's backs up. It's all very well saying that you can't censor out the benefits of b/fing in order to make FFers feel better about their 'choices' (or not as the case may be) which I entirely agree with. But there's a huge difference between supporting, normalising, encouraging and congratulating breastfeeders and deliberately attempting to make ffers look/ feel bad and inadequate. Sorry, but that's the context in which terms such as this are mostly used. Not as a simple alternative to bottle/formula.

you · 16/09/2009 17:18

See, not because of the term itself, but beacause of the connotations behind it and the way in which the words are used.

PuzzleRocks · 16/09/2009 17:21

[Applauds Sabire] [Applauds You] [Goes off to find cake]

2shoes · 16/09/2009 17:24

tbh I ff both mine9NOT SHARING REASONS0 and this horrid term was never used by anyone.
to me it brings up a picture of a child being fed by a tube.

MilaMae · 16/09/2009 17:27

I've never heard it before either.

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