So does anyone else find the term 'artificial feeding' in relation to the use of formula milk a bit irritating?

[bangandthedirtisgone]

Or is it just me?

'Point I'm making is that formula really can't be compared with any sort of food we cook in our kitchen. It is an 'artificial food'.'

yeah? Haribo sweeties anyone. Ready meals etc. Wotsits.

Surely any of our food could be classed as artificial unless we eat it raw.

scaryteacher - why do you say things like 'But hey, judge away, having ff makes me a bad mother?' You had a difficult experience and you did the best you could for your baby in very challenging circumstances. Why would anyone judge you? What makes you think that anyone is judging you? Has anyone used moral language here - talked about mothers being selfish or uncaring?

Unless of course you think that bf advocates are generally nasty, stupid and mean spirited individuals who have no sympathy or understanding.

In my experience this is not true - they think bf is important but they also understand how hard it can be for some women to a) choose to breastfeed and b) to establish or continue breastfeeding, even though this might be their choice.

I don't make Haribos or wotsits in my kitchen. But in anycase, you could eat all the raw ingredients of these products unprocessed without becoming ill couldn't you?

Not so babies and cows milk.

"Surely any of our food could be classed as artificial unless we eat it raw"

Most food can be eaten raw or cooked and it will still provide nutritional benefits.

Infant formula is the one 'complete' food that needs to be chemically altered and denatured in order for it to be properly digested.

Sorry - would add, 'though you wouldn't find me licking packets of raw chicken in asda!' (wtf was going on there then? poor person was probably trying to commit suicide!)

What do you mean by denatured?

Don't we denature eggs when we cook them? I thought it meant altering the proteins using heat.

You can eat it raw or you can cook it (which alters/denatures it at a molecular level). But you don't have to remove some of the protein, and then add sugar and more fat to an egg to render it edible, do you?

Sabire - That was my reaction too. I hope he got diarrhoea. Disgusting moron.

sabire, some people will just argue the toss because they can.

I for one am glad fomrula exists. dd would be dead.
But you should see the total crud she has now. Its an 'arificial' food called ketocal to go down her tube. I read the ingredients once and went
Makes her vomit.

i find it really interesting when ff's say they are being made to feel guilty, the only person who can make you feel guilty is you. i have made some different decisions to the norm with regards to raising my daughter and in my opinion i have done what is best for her so no matter what people have said it hasnt bothered me as i know i have done what is in my opinion the best for her. if someone decides to formula feed for whatever reason and in their opinion it is what is the best option for their child, for example some of the people who has medical reasons then no one could make them feel guilty for that decision. i have read so many of these debates on breast vs bottle and the impression i get is that ffers do feel guilty, maybe because they didnt ever try bfing or didnt persevere.
on a different note, is anyone reading the politics of breastfeeding?

you feel guilty if someone says something mean when you wanted to bf but couldn't.
number 4 couldn't be bf.

minnie, on the one hand you say the only person who can make you feel guilty for ff is you, then you go on to say "ffers do feel guilty, maybe because they don't ever try bfing or didn't perservere" . What a massive value judgement!

How long, in your opinion, should someone have perservered before they are considered to have tried hard enough?

These are precisely the throw away statements that make people who wanted to bf but didn't manage to feel so upset and judged by those lucky enough to succeed - and yes, I do believe luck plays a large part in it, as it does in your birth experience and your subsequent care. It shouldn't be down to luck but it often is.

Foxytocin - yes she was a bf counsellor. And in hindsight, I agree, should have written a letter, but as it's a few years ago I have probably left it to late.

Sabire - no - what was life saving for my DC1 was being tubefed very high fat/energy feed. If i had not allowed this and tried and insisted on bf her at the time she would now be dead.

I find some of the advocates for bf scarily blinded to the realities of some neonates.

I don't feel AT ALL guilty about FF. I do on the other hand get really cross that people go on and on about bf in a forum where everyone KNOWS that bf is considered to the optimum. It is patronising and judgemental in mho.

Some people haven't bf for whatever reason. Endless arguments do nothing than make people feel bad. If you feel so strongly, go and lobby your MP for better support for new mothers, funds for more mw/hvs etc. But stop being so god damned SMUG!

Sabire - it isn't always overt, but the judginess is there...I've copied and pasted some examples from this thread. Have to agree with Porto's last post as well.

'If you can't breastfeed for whatever reason, then no-one is judging you.

If you choose to formula feed, then yes, you may get judged, as you might for any other choice.

Judging the person isn't fair, but nothing wrong with judging a choice. If you make a choice, stand by it!'

'"when your PFB is grown up they won't give a shit how you fed them"

Well - you don't know that do you? I know adults who feel quite sad when they know their mothers didn't want to breastfeed them as babies.

And what about adults with health conditions like diabetes, hypertension and breast cancer? How do they feel when they see articles suggesting possible links between methods of feeding in infancy and adults developing these conditions in later life?'

'In any case, the very mechanism of feeding out of a bottle is different, and frankly, inferior, to feeding from a breast,'

'In any case, there is a huge and significant difference in the nutritional content of formula versus breastmilk, so even if you did allow baby to self regulate, which i imagine many do, it doesn't compensate for the feeding of a nutritionally inferior milk, if you see what i mean? Either way, the fats/protein/contents are inferior, as is the method of milk delivery / satiety...' (note repetition and therefore underlining of inferior)

' "I struggle to understand why bf mothers get so emotional about other people's choices"

Maybe because they see this as a health issue where a mother's choices sometimes have serious implications for her child's welfare, rather than as a lifestyle issue which is primarily about parenting styles.'

Hope that answers why I and others feel judged.

scaryteacher, I read nothing judgey in that list.

It is just a statement of the writer's opinion (based in a lot of cases on facts), whether or not you agree with it.

It does not automatically follow that just because someone does something differently from you because of their beliefs means that they judge your choice.

Many women give birth naturally. I had cs in both cases, one of which was elective. They could very well feel that an elective was unnecessary risky major surgery and not for them. Do I feel judged? No. To each his/her own.

Scaryteacher, you asked about advantages for mothers with bf - there are health advantages (if you bf, you have a reduced chance of all sorts of cancers, osteoporosis and more recent research seems to suggest diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc) and there are practical advantages - if you and your baby are together, so is your baby's food source - no sterilising, no running out if you're out of the house longer than you thought you'd be, etc.

You may not find it judgy, I do.

By minnietheminx007 on Thu 17-Sep-09 13:25:02 i find it really interesting when ff's say they are being made to feel guilty, the only person who can make you feel guilty is you.

Sorry but this phrase absolutely drives me mad. It is complete rubbish IMO. It is so not true. Other people's actions have a huge bearing on how you yourself feel. It is human nature and I have yet to meet any person ever who is not affected by what others think or say, in differing degrees. And what's more, the people doing the judging, or saying the mean/unkind.unplsant type cpommetns know that by saying these things that they are likely to affect the way another person feels.

Rather than stating that people shouldn't feel bad because someone says something unpleant, maybe we should be shouting out and reminding people that they should always think before they speak, and take into account how their words or actions may affect the person on the recieving end.

To me the whole phrase is just a cop out for people who judge. (

(BTW, I am aware that almost everyone judges something at some time - doesn't mean that the judgers are not generally the one at faulT)

nothing judgey! OMG!

"It does not automatically follow that just because someone does something differently from you because of their beliefs means that they judge your choice." But this thread is FILLED with comments that point out how inferior FF is and about "poor" choices. The OP is about using the emotive term "artificial".

The implication is that people who do not bf are somehow lacking in the intelligence or knowledge to do the right thing by their babies. As I said - we all KNOW that breast is best, yet for some it just doesn't work. Babies aren't dying all over the place because they had formula.

People come armed with all the stats and facts, and feel proud that they have bf. And so they should. I am happy for anyone who successfully bf their child. But please stop the judging of others who didn't/couldn't. It is none of your business!

Further to hunker's reply, may I add the oxytocin rush when you feed your baby.

Prior planning prevents Hunker. I always made sure I had plenty of bottles with me when I took ds out, and didn't run out. It wasn't rocket science. As I said earlier, sterilising was easy too, dishwashers + steam steriliser = easy life.

I think that other factors are more prevalent in preventing cancers, osteoporosis et al than bfing.

You think that ff mothers don't also feel a rush of emotion/maternal love when feeding their children Puzzle?

Dear god Scary, talk about twist things. Someone asked about benefits to the mother. The oxytocin rush is one.
I said nothing about formula feeding mothers.

But in answer to you question, no I don't think that. Why would I? My mother formula fed me from 6 weeks and i'm quite certain she loved me no more or less.