to think that a man shouldn't need to get his wife's/dp's permission to get a vasectomy?

[DaisymooSteiner]

Have been meaning to post this for ages, and it's come up on another thread so thought I'd start one.

I recently asked my GP how my dh would go about getting a vasectomy. She said he needed to make an appt with a particular doctor and that normally we would both need to be present to make sure that I consented, but as she'd spoken to me they would make a note and he could go alone.

On another thread someone has mentioned that she needed to give written consent as a condition of her dh being given the op.

I think it is absolutely disgraceful and deeply unethical that a mentally competant adult should need another person's permission to have an operation of any kind, let alone something like a vasectomy.

AIBU?

nope, doesn't vary - it's UK law!

Just saying what my mum told me. She said they wouldn't operate until they spoke to him.
It was a quite few years ago though.

It seems to me that the population would be foolish to let any demands that the wife agrees to the procedure before it is carried out go unchallenged. Today it's his vasectomy, tomorrow your abortion or request for contraception? Sounds like a slippery slope and very backwards step, far too controlling for me.

I seem to remember (and I'm sure it was from a post on here) that they do also want to see the man on his own.
I guess to make sure that he, individually, is happy.

little silver - I think that people are thinking they are being asked for consent when they are not.

It is the point I made before - some medical practitioners would feel they were unwilling to do these operations without being sure the person's partner agreed to the permanent removal of the facilities to reproduce. With a vasectomy this would just be part of assessing whether it was appropriate to agree to a medically unecessary, NHS funded operation.

In this situation they might wish to consult with the partner to make sure they agreed or had been consulted. It is not that they would be seeking to get the partner to sign consent forms IYSWIM.

It varies from doctor to doctor because each doctor's opinion differs.

YABU. It should be a joint decision.

No, of course it's not a bloody joint decision. A man has a total right to control his own fertility, just as a woman does. Of course, it would raise serious questions for the relationship if he did it behind his DP's back, or if she was really against it but it is still his body and his decision. The fact that he is married to someone is irrelevant. Marriage isn't always forever, anyway, and it certainly doesn't mean you have ownership of your spouse's body.

If my DP was really unhappy with something I was planning to do with my body then I would discuss it with him and try to find out why he was so bothered or have a good think about whether I thought it was really necessary. But I recognise that I am ultimately responsible for my own body and fertility.

I am so fed up with men who refuse to take control of their own fertility and then complain that women are trying to trap them with babies. Surely a man who is prepared to be responsible for his fertility and prevent the creation of children he will not want is to be applauded.

It's not a joint decision? Is having a baby a joint decision? We all know a woman is legally intitiled to get pregnant by a man who she has no interest in having a relationship with, yet he will be also legally intitled to contriubute to that childs upbringing. Try to seperate 'legal' with 'moral' and 'intitlement' with 'privledge' - it might begin to sort out some peoples expectation of every legal 'right' being indulged without thought to morality

Don't be ridiculous. Of course it is a joint decision. It isn't about permission; it's about respect for your relationship and the plans you have.

A husband doesn't need permission to shag his wife's sister either; but that doesn't make it ethical.

yes it is about respect.

perhaps the gp could ask - is this something you have discussed with your partner.

something they would ask of both sexes considering an operation to have no children.

however the answer to the question shouldn't be a pre-requisite for the go-ahead.

if a man want a vasectomy, then he should be able to have one. It's his body.

Maybe I have an outmoded view of relationships but I do believe that they work better when couples communicate. I think there's also a huge difference between permitting and discussing - maybe this has already been brought up on this thread - apols if I'm repeating someone else's words, I've only skimmed the thread.

I agree that with any other sort of operation it is ultimately about the body of the individual concerned, but nonetheless I'd be very concerned about the state of the relationship if people went about having operations without discussing the options with their partners. All the more so when it concerns joint issues, i.e. having children. When it comes to fertility I think the issue is the same whether it's about abortion, vasectomy, IVF, whatever. It is a joint issue, it affects them both.

The argument about a man having a right to a vasectomy, I think, is rather irrelevant. The GP has to decide if the NHS's resources will be best spent on the operation and if the operation will be appropriate for the person.

Since a vasectomy is a lifestyle choice and not a medically necessary operation it would be appropriate to spend a bit of time looking at the person's life i.e. age, personal circumstances and relationship as well as asking them about why they want the operation.

If a married man came requesting a secret vasectomy a doctor might be concerned that in a year the man might be back asking for a secret reversal e.t.c.

how the doctor chooses to investigate these things will depend on the person asking for the operation and on the doctor's own beliefs and opinions. But are not required to gain a wife's consent in order to perform the operation.

I don't think you can compare a vasectomy to a woman seeking a contracetive pill/other method (other than tubal ligation) As one is permanent (reversability not guarenteed) and the other is able to be stopped at any given time!

So that is a non arguement, imo!

And of course the couple should make the choice together & I can see why drs ask if the partner knows/consents. The last thing they need is to be tangled up in legalitied because the wife didn't know etc...

I can't decide if YABU or not either.

While I agree that it should be his choice, it should also be discussed and agreed with his partner; and although "permission" seems a bit steep, I thought that any form of sterilisation involved a sort of counselling appointment, to make sure that it really is something that the person and their partner want to do.

Having said that, I do know of 2 men who have had vasectomies that they wouldn't have personally chosen to have if they hadn't loved their wives as much as they did - for both of them, it would have been dangerous for their wife to get pg again and them having a vasectomy was the easiest way to circumvent that risk. They weren't keen! But still had it done anyway.

I saw your thread title and was prepared to come on all bristly and YABU, however having read your OP....YAdefinatelyNBU!!

I think that most men would at least have the decency to discuss the said op with their partner, however think it unreasonable that they need written consent.

My DH had a vasectomy earlier this year and he saw the doc for the initial appontment, made the appointment for the op, and had it all done without any input from me other than when we discussed our long term options when I was pregnant with (unplanned) DS2 and me dropping him off and picking him up again.

Can't believe that some surgeries are asking for partner's consents.

And if the wife says no?

When dh had his vasectomy we were actually separated. I'm not sure what his counseling session entailed, I think they just wanted to be really sure he wouldn't get into a new relationship and change his mind. To be honest I think that's what this is about more than anything else, checking to see if the man has really thought it through, because people do seem to have the view that reversals are relatively easy.

It's probably fairly cost effective as an op though, given that it could replace many years of prescriptions/other contraception paid for by the NHS.

There is no requirement (or legal basis) for anyone other than the patient to consent for any surgery except in the case of children and those with significant reduced mental capacity, and even in these cases there is an emphasis on making sure that consent is taken where at all possible. So no GP should do more than suggest a joint appointment, I doubt they could insist on it.

I would wonder how much discussion there was and how healthy a relationship it was if the wife only said "no" at a counseling session. I suspect that there might be more pressing issues for them than choice of contraception. Not to say that he couldn't then go ahead and have the snip, just that he might be doing it alone.

See there is a problem with asking to see the wife as well. A man has the right to refuse that and still get his vasectomy. People have something called confidentiality which a doctor can't break, and can't use the breaking of as a condition for treatment. Imagine if you went for a procedure, any procedure, and the doctor said 'well you can have it, but only if we inform your mum'. WTF?

People who say 'it's not the same as contraception' are wrong - it's exactly the same because th issue is bodily autonomy. Everyone has the right to determine what happens to their own body without interference and permission from anyone else.

Before people react - yes in a healthy relationship it should be a joint decision. I would be furious if DH did it without my consent. But that doesn't mean I believe I have a right to withold consent.

If dh ahd one without telline me I would probably leave, becuase I would have masivre isues about how our relationship worked, and that he was prepared to make decision so big without even informing me (and it is a decision that has implications for both partners) BUT it's his job to tell me, and not that of the GP to enforce.

As it happens I am v keen for him to have a vasectomy LOL (I've beena dvised against sterilisation by GP as high risk for a few things) it's happen when he is ready

I would be cross if he did it without talking to me as I do think that it should be a joint decision as to whether or not we have more children. However, I would be quite happy for him to have it done as I think 3 kids is enough for us! I have bad reactions to hormonal contraception,have heard so many horror stories that I won't consider a copper coil, I am not a good candidate for sterilisation myself due to underlying medical conditions, he wouldn't want to abstain and I don't trust condoms.

kat2907 - I don't agree. Apart from anything else, until an individual can give themselves a vasectomy/sterilisation or prescribe themselves contraceptives then the issues of bodily autonomy you keep mentioning are irrelevant in terms of this issue.

If they were relevant you wouldn't need a referral/prescription from a GP to gain access to these services. The whole process of getting contraceptives and sterilisations involves being assessed by and gaining permission from a doctor, so as to protect NHS resources and the individual patient and ensure they are given effective treatment.

If someone approaches a GP asking for a non-essential surgery like vasectomy the GP has the right and autonomy to investigate the appropriateness of referring the patient for the surgery and this may include seeking to speak to the man's partner. He/she could not write or phone the partner to ask to speak to them him/herself as this would break confidentiality but he can suggest that he/she is unwilling to make a referral unless the patient breaks the confidentiality themselves. The patient then has the right to seek a second opinion from another doctor who may or may not want to satisfy themselves of the wife's opinion before making a referral.

There is a bigger burden of decision on the GP if the surgery is being requested on the NHS but there is still a burden of decision even if the surgery is being done privately.

The wife/partner does not have to give consent, that is a complete myth. Giving medical consent is a completely different thing to what we are talking about here. We are talking about some doctors feeling it best practice to ensure that a man has fully considered his request for a vasectomy.

PD reminded me of a gynae I worked with at a women's clinic once, an amazingly witty, funny, wise-cracking women in her early 50s with three teenage children who never failed to provide her with jokes to tell us.

I passed her office once and heard her loud Brooklyn accent, 'Well, of course you're not pregnant! You have to have sex regularly to get pregnant you know!'

The whole waiting room fell out laughing.

kat - it isn't exactly the same as contraception because it is a lot harder, even impossible sometimes, to reverse. It is a life-changing decision and needs to be thought through, and if the man has a partner, they expect him to think of the impact on the partner and the relationship too (and future partnerships).

A friend of mine had a hysterectomy for medical reasons aged 32 - it wasn't essential but made her life easier - and she was also "counselled" first and asked if her husband was ok with it (he was, they had their DC by then)

expat - LOL.