to think that a man shouldn't need to get his wife's/dp's permission to get a vasectomy?

[DaisymooSteiner]

Have been meaning to post this for ages, and it's come up on another thread so thought I'd start one.

I recently asked my GP how my dh would go about getting a vasectomy. She said he needed to make an appt with a particular doctor and that normally we would both need to be present to make sure that I consented, but as she'd spoken to me they would make a note and he could go alone.

On another thread someone has mentioned that she needed to give written consent as a condition of her dh being given the op.

I think it is absolutely disgraceful and deeply unethical that a mentally competant adult should need another person's permission to have an operation of any kind, let alone something like a vasectomy.

AIBU?

[NorbertDentressangle]

DP had a vasectomy a couple of months ago.

When he mentioned it to the GP and asked to be referred they asked him how I felt about it but obviously he could have told them anything.

I did along to the "counselling" appt (but only because DP had taken the day off work so we taking advantage of it and going for lunch etc). I hadn't been invited or asked to attend.

I got the impression that most men attended without partners

[fishflange]

I wonder if they would have asked for consent if you weren't, gasp, married?

DH had one this year, I didn't have to give consent. A bloke in his office had it done in a different health authority and his wife did.

[InMyLittleHead]

Lots of men I know are already saying why should they bother getting married when it just puts them in a worse position in the event of divorce re finances and custody. If a man also then has to get his wife's permission for a medical procedure on his own body then I think we can expect marriage rates to fall a little further...wouldn't blame them either!

[curiositykilled]

No-one's partner has to 'give consent'. Married or not. It is nothing to do with gaining medical consent (very different thing to what is being described here) from the partner.

I don't think it is anything to do with gaining permission either. Different doctors simply have different ways of satisfying themselves that giving a man a vasectomy - an unecessary lifestyle choice operation, is appropriate.

A doctor might not feel comfortable referring a man asking for a vasectomy who refused to discuss the issue with his wife, that is the doctor's prerogative. Some will ask to speak to the wife/partner, some will ask the man if he's spoken with his wife/partner and some will just refer without any input.

[curiositykilled]

Lets not turn this into a doctor bashing exercise please. If people are objecting to a man needing to gain consent from his wife for a vasectomy then they will be pleased to know this does not happen. A man does not have to seek permission from his wife or partner.

[MumOfAPickle]

Just wanted to say to curiosity thanks for the fab posts. Thoughtful and insightful and IMO entirely right!

I think its less about consent and more about informing. How about if men don't need their wife/partners consent but that they must be informed? Surely no-one could think that's a bad idea....

[curiositykilled]

not in the UK anyway.

[curiositykilled]

Thanks mumofapickle.

I might not choose to put a stipulation like that on it myself but can see why it might be advantageous in terms of attempting to reduce the number of people asking for reversals.

For me it'd be a bridge too far into infringement of patient choice. I think the current referrals system is probably pretty good.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

It IS exactly the same as contraception in that it's the same as any medical procedure - ie consent can ONLY be given by the person whose body it is.

What if a woman needed her husband's agreement to get sterilised? Would that be ok? I suspect not.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

No mumofapickle because we have doctor patient confidentiality. You cannot make informing someone else a prerequisite to getting a medical procedure done.

[curiositykilled]

kat2907 - a doctor is perfectly entitled to refuse a referral if they feel a procedure is inappropriate. It would break confidentiality if the doctor called the wife and said "do you know I've got your husband here asking for a vasectomy?" but it would not break confidentiality if a doctor said to the man that he/she felt he had not fully considered the consequences of having the operation because he was unwilling to talk to his wife and so he/she would not refer him. So whilst it would not be a pre-requisite of having the procedure done it could be a pre-requisite of obtaining a referral from a particular doctor.

It is exactly the same for female sterilisation.

A doctor cannot allow a patient to make the decisions about their own care without input. A doctor can refuse to prescribe or refer if they think the patient's request is unsuitable. A doctor might refuse to prescribe particular contraceptive pills because I woman had high blood pressure for example.

Do you see that it is not anything to do with gaining permission or giving consent, more that it is about satisfying a doctor that the procedure being requested is appropriate.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

It ends up being exactly the same curiosity, so I don't see that they are different, just a different way to spin it that makes it sound acceptable.

[curiositykilled]

It doesn't though because 'medical consent' is a very different thing to what is being described. It is a legal term and legislated about/regulated. Different doctors have different opinions about the subject, the man could simply go to another doctor and ask for a referral and that doctor might never ask about his wife or partner so it is not a 'pre-requisite' of having the procedure.

[robinia]

I would like to see it made a legal requirement that wives are informed .... might be more difficult in the case of partners as I'm not sure what legal status they hold.

A marriage "contract", certainly the way it is expressed in a church service, talks about the man and the wife becoming one body.

An analogy can be made with financial/property transactions- that certain people have to be informed if one party wants to change things.

[curiositykilled]

The pre-requisite is gaining a referral from a doctor.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Ok curiosity - I do get your point, we can agree to disagree.
Robinia, however, that is crazy. Men and women do not become 'one body' upon marriage. People still keep their rights over their own bodies. Otherwise you end up with things how they used to be when men could beat and rape their wives at will. People don't give up their right to make decisions over their own bodies when they get married.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

And bodies are not like financial property or transactions in the least

[curiositykilled]

Agree that bodies are not like property kat, bit of a scary path to follow that.

[NinthWave]

YANBU at all. I shared my current situation on the other thread - basically my DH is going for the snip despite my having just had a MC, as we agreed he would before I got pregnant.

I might not like it but I'll get over it - if he feels this strongly that he doesn't want to father any more children, then I respect it, totally.

[mummyhill]

I wouldn't get myself sterilized without talking it over with my husband as it is a joint decision as far as I am concerned so I would be cross if he went and had the procedure done without talking to me first!

[mayorquimby]

but that's not the topic mummyhill. the topic is wether a man should NEED the consent of his wife to get a vasectomy.
obviously he should discuss it with his wife, i'd imagine most people would be pissed off if their partner made an outlandish expenditure without at least discussing it let alone a vasectomy. but that's an issue for the relationship, not for restricting an adults autonomy with regards to medical decisions.
obciously a relationship is going to be in trouble if a partner is thinking of making such a decision without informing the other person or even doing it against their wishes. but that has absolutely nothing to do with the medical side of it.
if a woman decided to get an abortion against her husbands wishes or without discussing it with him first the relationship would most likely suffer, it shouldn't mean that a doctor would first need to seek the husbands consent.

[DaisymooSteiner]

Can I just point out curiosity that whilst you are obviously right in saying that it is unttrue that a doctor needs consent from the wife to do a vasectomy, this is exactly what happened to a poster on another thread - she had to sign forms saying she agreed to her dh's op. I have no problem with the counselling aspect of this at all, but it does seem that some doctors are under the mistaken impression that they have need a wife's consent to do this procedure.

[DaisymooSteiner]

And the other point, which I don't feel anyone has adequately answered, is would this be acceptable for a woman to be refused a sterilisation without her husband being consulted? This could put someone in an absuive relationship in a really difficult situation.

[ilovemydogandmrobama]

This is the flip side of pro choice. If those who are advocating pro choice, that its a woman's right to choose, then surely it's also a man's right to make decisions about his own body/fertility.