to be contemplating asking my neighbour to move her newborn into her bedroom at night?

[willow]

Essentially, we live in a semi and neighbour's new baby is in a room that's next to our bedroom. Neighbour is on the floor above. Upshot is that we wake up from baby's cries, well before its parents do. Not even going to go down the advice to prevent cotdeath route, or fact that I think there might be a she who must not be named routine being followed.

Should I ask them, politely, to contemplate having baby in same room as them, at least for a little while until it's settled into a bit more of a routine? Appreciate that I can't demand they rethink where they're siting the nursery - but don't see why we should be disturbed more than the actual parents.

I wasn't saying that white was a nationality; I meant that Irish was a nationality and therefore legally covered by international law on racial discrimination. White is a type of skin pigmentation, which is also legally covered by international law on racial discrimination. But skin pigmentation is not analogous to race.

so who was caused offence by willow's use of the term? edd? by proxy or in person?

it's an ugly term, no question, and it's classist, but everyone reading it full well knows that willow was responding to a post full of insults, indeed a thread filled with them. in that context (and we all agree context IS important) she has been very restrained and decent imo, and it was just a low blow to start kicking her over something irrelevant to the piece. i can tolerate the use of 'white trash' a lot more easily than i can someone kicking a person when they're already down.

I don't think the Irish were ever considered to be "non-white", non-WASP maybe, but never non-white.

"White trash" is one of those terms which has little to no meaning over here and is therefore highly debateable as to its specific interpretation.

Aitch, I have no issue with the OP at all and was just talking in general terms because I found your points interesting. I never meant it as an attack on the OP's specific comments.

I apologise for what has been, essentially, a thread hijack.

oh, er, yes, now that you mention it...
apols, willow.

You should probably treat her how you would like to be treated. Choose a friendly time of day and tone of voice, invite her and the baby over for a cuppa and make her feel not like a sinful maggot, which is how she might feel if you asked her to rearrange her rooms to suit you. She probably needs lots of support now if her own darling offspring is crying so much that you are being woken every night. Once you have shown friendship and support you might be able to share the wisdom of co-sleeping, cuddling, feeding in bed, singing etc that she would no doubt benefit from. Good luck.

Aitch, where precisely is this "kicking"? The OP has had as much support as she has had those thinking her unreasonable, and even those who think she would be unreasonable to complain have mostly been sympathetic about her being woken up (possibly a night twice, for five minutes, for a maximum of two weeks). You have certainly been having a bit of a barney with several people, but then you've been pretty aggressive yourself.

i think you confuse aggression with debate.

lol at 'where's the kicking?' are you serious? i presume that, in your own words, you've 'glossed over' it. i think you should read the thread again, nooka, the level of aggression (blasphemy, swearing, pointed personal insults towards willow etc) is completely uncalled-for. i really hate AIBU.

Aitch it wasn't a case of kicking someone, and reading back over the thread the op wasn't subject to insults - just many people said she would be unreasonable to talk to the neighbour but they mainly expressed sympathy for her broken nights. To start claiming that my feelings about the op's language are bogus and that I am getting my knickers in a twist is rude. I think we can see from the following discussion that the term 'white trash' is one that many people have fairly strong feelings about so do you now think that everyone who disagrees with the term are 'bogus'? If you can't just relate to other posters with respect then maybe you shouldn't post on these threads.

'Irish' is defined as an ethnicity, for example on the UK census it is a different category from white. In terms of prejudice and so on there is even a book called 'how the irish became white' by Noel Ignatiev detailing how the Irish in the US were considered so low in the racial/ethnic hierarchy they were considered non-white and only 'became' white when they became politically powerful in the mid-19th Century.

i do tire of the mis-quoting on here."it's bogus to get your knickers in a twist about it as a term, imo, when the weight of cultural advantage is still so heavily towards white people in this society." this is a perfectly reasonable point made about the term white trash, it's not about you and your feelings.

i do tire of the mis-quoting on here."it's bogus to get your knickers in a twist about it as a term, imo, when the weight of cultural advantage is still so heavily towards white people in this society." this is a perfectly reasonable point made about the term white trash, it's not about you and your feelings.

Sorry but I think YAB a little U.
Although I feel your pain as the sound of a screaming baby is the one thing I can not listen too, makes me want to bang my head off the wall

I have re-read the thread (before that last post) and yes I really don't see anything particularly terrible. One or two accusations of a lack of empathy, and a couple of being selfish. But as those are pretty much balanced by other posts accusing the new mum of exactly the same failings I see the thread as being quite balanced. But then I do think that the idea of complaining to a new mum that their baby is crying and telling her how to look after it better is unreasonable, which of course affects my outlook.

i don't think that the OP ever intended to do either of those things, nooka, judging by her post. you can't complain about a baby crying, it's what babies do. this is willow's OP, it's perfectly measured and makes clear that she is not going to go down the parenting styles route and can't make any demands.

"Essentially, we live in a semi and neighbour's new baby is in a room that's next to our bedroom. Neighbour is on the floor above. Upshot is that we wake up from baby's cries, well before its parents do. Not even going to go down the advice to prevent cotdeath route, or fact that I think there might be a she who must not be named routine being followed.

Should I ask them, politely, to contemplate having baby in same room as them, at least for a little while until it's settled into a bit more of a routine? Appreciate that I can't demand they rethink where they're siting the nursery - but don't see why we should be disturbed more than the actual parents."

OOOps did not see it had turned in to a bun fight.

kimi, it's not a bun fight, it's a discussion...

Gets out mumsnet dictionary...

Discussions = see bunfight

arf.

So if someone was to take issue with the term 'white trash' as i did it would be bogus?? sorry if I'm missing something, but does that not imply that as I took issue with it I was bogus?
I'm not sure in terms of 'advantage' if ethnicity trumps class every time, it seems a weird argument, like a prejudice top trumps. Would it not be better to try to avoid derogatory terms based on anyone else's class/ethnicity etc? I certainly would hate if my children were called 'white trash' and that people self-define as white trash is completely beside the point, as has been discussed so many times in relation to 'the n word' and black people.
....anyway, presumably the op has more than enough answers to her original question so that is the main thing

Just skimmed through, I love the term white trash however I think it is only offensive if used by a non white person to describe a white person, as far as I can work out it is the same as the N word being ok when used by my non white friends to refer to other non white friends, such as "hello N*** how you been!
Oh I love it when you are only allowed to use certain words depending on what colour/ race you are, real equality that

Wonders off taking her bun with her

Oh FFS. Now I'm a racist? Purleese. You have no idea about my ethnic/class background. Suffice to say I am perfectly well placed to use the term - albeit in jest at the notion that I'd have it out with a neighbour - without any underlying implication. Fwiw though being wHite working class does not equal White trash. Just ask my nan.

lol poor willow

we have been faced with this situation this year. In our v small london terrace, a couple with a baby moved in next door and his room was next to ours. He screamed and screamed and screamed at night and both dh and I work full time - we were totally knackered, I was like a walking zombie.

anyway, I happened to bump into them and we had a frank talk and they, very kindly, volunteered to put him in with them for a couple of weeks to give us a bit of respite (I didn't ask and the whole time I have played it down and volunteered to help etc.). It was a lifesaver tbh and he is back in his room now and sleeping a bit better.

We didn't ask but I think she could tell because we looked so totally ill from the lack of sleep!

I know babies cry! But the only reason willow was posting is because the baby crying next door is waking her up, so it's pretty disingenuous to say that she wasn't thinking about complaining about it. I don't think there is anything wrong with being pissed off and thinking about doing many thing in this situation, and as willow has said that she's going to see how it goes I agree she's being perfectly reasonable. I just don't see the abuse that you do. Seems like a fairly normal discussion to me. I was irritated with you, not the OP all this talk of MN used to be much nicer etc etc. Sometimes there are threads that go badly wrong, I don't think this is one of them.

Fwiw, was never contemplating "complaining" - just raising the issue to see if there was a way of getting around it. That's not quite the same as complaining, although am probably going to be accused of being a pedant now.

Ahem, what's wrong with being a pedant?