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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

it really irritates me when people say their baby is flirting

259 replies

koolaid · 30/08/2009 22:49

at adult members of the opposite sex.

As in "oh DS was flirting with all the health visitors at the doctors today"

When all the baby did was smile/gurgle at someone who was showing them a lot of attention, in the way that babies do.

And always said about their DS, no-one who say the same thing about their baby girl.

It just really irks me. AIBU?

OP posts:
thumbwitch · 01/09/2009 15:25

Morloth, even those relying on dictionary defs are still being narrow, see:

flirt (flûrt)
v. flirt·ed, flirt·ing, flirts
v.intr.

  1. To make playfully romantic or sexual overtures.
  2. To deal playfully, triflingly, or superficially with: flirt with danger.
  3. To move abruptly or jerkily.

v.tr.

  1. To toss or flip suddenly.
  2. To move quickly.

n.

  1. One given to flirting.
  2. An abrupt jerking movement.

Only ONE definition is given over to sexual connotations.
Taking it as that being the ONLY way to read the word would be like assuming that "post" always meant a vertical lump of wood that holds up a fence. IMO.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/09/2009 15:30

So it is fine then to refer to eg an 11 year old girl being friendly to an old man by saying "look at her flirting with him"?

It just really doesn;t sit right.

I never use this word to mean friendly. And if it does just mean that - as per the people using it for babies - why not use it for older children and adolescants?

Either it's fine, or it isn;t, surely.

Morloth · 01/09/2009 15:33

"I never use this word to mean friendly." I have.

"Either it's fine, or it isn;t, surely."

Nope, things are rarely 100%, especially things like words which mean different things to different people in different contexts in different cultures with different backgrounds with different ideas.

To me its fine, to you it isn't. And that is fine as well. It really doesn't matter. But it is fun to talk about it.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/09/2009 15:38

So there is a sliding scale of appropriateness which changes as the child gets older, then once past the age of consent the sexual overtone is the accepted meaning?

Seems like something which could lead to huge misunderstandings as far as I can see.

If someone said to me, your DD is flirting with that man, I would be horrified.

If someone said that man is flirting with your DD, equally horrified.

I cannot imagine anyone ever saying eg that woman is flirting with your DD.

I think that there is an undertone to this word, whether people like it or not, and pretending that that undertone is not there simply because the person if very young is unnecessary.

Just say being friendly. Or charming.

Yes charming is a better word. Is that what people really mean but it's not in usage much these days?

Morloth · 01/09/2009 15:42

So say charming Spam, I will continue to use flirting if I feel it is appropriate. Might lead to misunderstandings certainly.

But it might also interest you to know that when I use the word "charming" I usually use to to describe rather unpleasant behaviour in someone who should know better.

Complicated isn't it?

TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied · 01/09/2009 15:46

Morloth I think you do have to have sex with the dictionary now. But things are far worse here. I was flirting with the idea of putting carrots in my stew... well we know what that means. Carrot sex for me tonight.

I do not understand how this arguement can still be going on- what kind of hideous being would think you mean your baby is gagging for sex if you say they're flirting? It just means charming, they like someone, they want some attention from that person. It is a joke, light hearted conversation. Why has it got to be taken seriously? There are a lot of people from different parts of the country who say this, which proves that it is acceptable. Everyone else seems to have ishoos.

Also, if a middle aged man says 'oh your 2 year old daughter is flirting with me' yes that is weird- but that's not how it's used is it? That's not really the context people are talking about is it?

My 15 mo gets all kind of women giggling their heads off and probably broody by his cute, flirty, pukering up, giggling at them, wanting their attention, ways. There is nothing sexual to this, but I still say 'Gawd he's such a little flirt this one'. Like I said earlier, it is light hearted, I laugh, they laugh, it is just chat. I'm not saying 'Oooh has my 1 yr old pulled?'

It's very strange that people should even have a fleeting thought that this is serious or sexual.

Morloth · 01/09/2009 15:50

Can I at least use a pocket size?

TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied · 01/09/2009 15:53

If I can use a baby carrot ;)

StripeySuit · 01/09/2009 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/09/2009 16:25

Maybe it is different across the country.

I have never ever heard anyone in real life say this, or describe a child as sexy legs etc. I have no idea "how it is used" apart from people saying on here they have no problem with people using it in relation to babies. Although the jury is out on applying it to older children.

FWIW if a man said about DD that she was smiley, or friendly, or charming, I would be very pleased. If he said she was flirtatious, I would be pretty freaked out. Interesting to hear that others agree, while still saying it is perfectly acceptable to say it.

I am going to start a one women mission to bring the word charming back - when old ladies say "oh what a charming baby" I certainly never think they are slating DD

beanieb · 01/09/2009 16:30

I am not sure if this has been mentioned but Charlotte Church says about her son in a magazine today 'As long as he's getting attention and someone's holding or playing with him, he's happy. Especially Women - he's a terrible flirt'

Morloth · 01/09/2009 16:31

Not just the country Spam, the world. Not everyone on this board is from/lives in the UK, has had a traditional UK upbringing (if there is such a thing).

"Charming" to me, is a bit of a slight, it is either as I said above "unpleasant behaviour" or "smarminess" or (as I am a WoW nerd) an attempt to control someone by magical means [grins]. Because those are the ways I have heard it most commonly used. I am aware of the original definition ofc, but it is that language thing again.

StripeySuit · 01/09/2009 16:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/09/2009 16:44

But then a lot of people on the thread agree with me - and they are from places too...

So it could be regional/cutural/whatever.

Charming is a bit of a slight when laced with sarcasm surely. If an old person described a child as charming, you wouldn't reprimand them for being rude and storm off, presumably?

Morloth · 01/09/2009 16:50

Of course not, because I don't really take stuff that people say about how babies are acting terribly seriously.

Yep, some people agree that the word flirting applied to babies/kids is inappropriate and some people think it is nice and some people think it doesn't matter either way. I don't really think anyone is right because it is so variable.

To me the word charming now automatically implies sarcasm. It is the only way I have heard it used in real life.

TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied · 01/09/2009 16:52

Morloth, don't back down love, you've fought your corner well all the way through.

Morloth · 01/09/2009 16:55

Oh Totally I don't really have a corner! I just think people get wound up about the silliest things and look for things that are simply not there.

It is fun to argue about these things.

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 01/09/2009 17:15

spam, re 'Either it's fine, or it isn;t, surely' and the sliding scale... this isn't how language works... it isn't how RL works.

i do know some people who think everything has a black/white right/wrong definitive answer and therefore debate along those lines until their heads explode. but 'so therefore if you say x is okay then x to the power 100 must also be okay' isn't actually valid. it's not true to life. context is everything. (i tend not to flirt with this type of person, though, if that's any consolation. )

the reason i personally don't say that verbal children flirt is because, having thought about it for the first time in my entire life, i don't think they flirt. not because it would be inappropriate, just that they don't do it in the same compellingly darling, near-diana-esque way that babies do.

scottishmummy · 01/09/2009 17:23

no no dont compare children to the doe eyed manipulator that was diana. most unfair and again she was an adult who used her presence and image to create rapport or as some may argue deflect detractors from her erratic moods

Morloth · 01/09/2009 17:27

hehe when adults do that head tilted down looking up at you through their eyelashes thing it makes me want to smack them.

When babies do it, it is cute as hell and makes me want to squish them (in a good way).

Context again.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/09/2009 17:30

My DD who is 2 definitely smiles, makes big eyes, etc all the things that are defined as "flirting" in your post. Many toddlers do.

This "cut off" of around 2 years that many people has interests me. I don;t buy that children over the age of 2 / verbal children don't engage in this type of behaviour. Why is it suddenly inappropriate?

The argument being made is that the term flirting, as applied to babies, is harmless, as clearly babies will not be engaging in it in a sexual way.

Surely then the implication is that older children might be doing it in a sexual way - which is clearly rubbish.

So why the distinction? Why OK for babies and not older ones?

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/09/2009 17:31

eg people have said "more room for misinterpretation" if the term flirting is applied to a child older than a baby.

???

AitchwonderswhoFruitCrumbleis · 01/09/2009 19:30

you're the only one here obsessed with okay or not okay, spam. i don't observe the specific behaviour to which i refer in older children, so i don't mention it. i can't help it if you 'don't buy' that.

at heart, this is the battle of the weirdos.

i think it's really a bit twisted to force a sexual definition of flirt onto a baby.

others, who abide by a sexual definition of flirt, think it's really a bit twisted to call children flirts.

i'd agree in that instance, hence my at 'sexy' which is fairly indisputable. it's just that i am suspicious of the motivation of someone who dismisses all the other definitions of the word in order to decry others who are so clearly using it in another way.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/09/2009 19:52

I'm not obsessed. I'm just right

No-one I know says it, so it's all academic really.

And no-one is saying a baby smiling is sexual, I hope.

My argument is that although the word has other meanings, the meaning in circulation in all places I have heard it is exclusively used in a sexual context, and about adults interacting with each other.

I also still don;t get the difference between saying a baby is flirting and a toddler. there isn;t one. The behaviour is the same, but the word is suddenly not appropriate any more. I do think it is interesting why that would be. And why the word becomes less appropriate as the child gets older, as that seems to be what people are saying.

Ponders · 01/09/2009 20:19

"the meaning in circulation in all places I have heard it is exclusively used in a sexual context"

you need to get out more then, Spam

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