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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'why bottle might be better than breast' - GMTV this morning

409 replies

babyignoramus · 19/08/2009 08:15

Hasn't even been shown yet but can't imagine it's going to go down too well here!!!!

Anyone else going to watch - it's going to annoy the arse off me but I can't seem to tear my eyes away......

OP posts:
TheDMshouldbeRivened · 19/08/2009 10:43

'I think that women who choose to ff should be given accurate information about making up feeds.

But also accurate information about the risks of ff.

Because that is a risk to the child's health too, isn't it? '

Yes and no. Yes because we need to be informed and more women should be helped to breastfeed and see it as normal and no, because what good will that information do if you cannot bf but add to your already considerable anguish. When dd had to be switched to a bottle I wanted to die as I felt I was failing her completely. That 10 IQ points was the biggest thing as she was already brain injured and facing retardation.
Belabouring the point would not have magically been able to make her breastfeed.
So yes and no.
Maybe formulas should be improved?

jumpingbeans · 19/08/2009 10:45

thanks, and i did mean can't bf not struggling to bf

Original poster
babyignoramus · 19/08/2009 10:47

I suppose it depends on how well you cope with broken nights - DH and I split nights - he did the evening and first night feed, I did the second night feed and the morning - that way we both got a reasonable night.

Just one broken night is enough to make me miserable and snappy and I get very fristrated very quickly with DS. It was no contest for me.

OP posts:
Ninks · 19/08/2009 10:47

God that's so true gypsymoon. I had the time to do a lot of research on MN before having DS so I knew all the basics and about the possible problems that might crop up (they did) and how to deal with them and get instant good advice.

Years ago when I had DD I gave it a try and but ultimately found it too stressful trying to learn a new skill when I was still coming to terms with being a parent. Poor quality information from HCPs plus the fact that I had never seen it or knew of anyone who BF beyond a weeks. It's understandable.

gypsymoon · 19/08/2009 10:51

I'm so glad I stuck with it - made feeding DD2 an absolute breeze!

I was lucky too that I was able to do a lot of research when pregnant with DD1, and also my DH was incredibly supportive of bf.

I think this is what it all comes down to in the end - support and information. Without it I wonder if I would have bf as long as I did and am?

StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail · 19/08/2009 10:51

But DMRiven then you're not choosing to ffeed are you? I agree that if a woman is struggling and feels she has no choice but to ff then the reason she's struggling is probably because she already knows the risks - using them as a stick to beat her with at that stage is unhelpful. That's different from women like me who are nervous about bf in advance and unsure in the first few days - there the information is really useful as it informs the decision between carry on or stop.
Would be lovely if formula could be improved!

FuriousofTunbridgeWells · 19/08/2009 10:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
babyignoramus · 19/08/2009 10:54

Why is it so difficult though? Do animals struggle like this? Presumably no-one shows them how to do it! Do cows have cracked and bleeding udders with their first calf?

Are we humans too evolved for our own bloody good? Hmmmm. I seemed to have gone off on a tangent somewhat.

OP posts:
gypsymoon · 19/08/2009 10:54

I probably should mention that we used to live in Australia...

They have laws outlawing discrimination of bf in public and there is a wonderful support line for bf mums.

I honestly don't know what the support system is like in the UK. Am pregnant with number 3 so will be interesting to find out...

gypsymoon · 19/08/2009 10:57

FuriousofTunbridgeWells - second that!

StealthBearWipesBumOnDailyMail · 19/08/2009 10:57

I don't know bi - it's a really good question. The standard answer is that we aren't exposed to people breastfeeding as much as we need to be (to have the general awareness / understanding of it) so it becomes a skill that needs to be taught. Also for a lot of our generation our mothers didn't do it, so can't pass on their knowledge (but again, that doesn't apply to cows )
I still don't think that goes far enough to explaining it though and would love to know more.

gypsymoon · 19/08/2009 11:00

Maybe animals do get cracked nipples! But unfortunately animals don;t get the choice but just have to get on with it!

Ninks · 19/08/2009 11:01

babyignoramus that's a really interesting tangent though. I believe that human females have more difficulty carrying a baby to term and giving birth due the fact that we have evolved into an upright position, and because our young have large brains / skulls.

So why do we have problems breastfeeding? Maybe we'll eventually come equipped with built-in Lansinoh cream...

MaggieBeauLeo · 19/08/2009 11:05

I think they need to rein in the breast feeding propoganda a bit though.. We all KNOW that nutritionally it's mroe appropriate for a baby, but there are OTHER factors..

too many people are being made to feel like failures because they don't manage it.

MaggieBeauLeo · 19/08/2009 11:05

I think they need to rein in the breast feeding propoganda a bit though.. We all KNOW that nutritionally it's mroe appropriate for a baby, but there are OTHER factors..

too many people are being made to feel like failures because they don't manage it.

gypsymoon · 19/08/2009 11:09

"Propaganda"??? What is misleading about the bf info out there? To call it propaganda is calling it bias and misleading...I'm new to the Uk so maybe I've missed something???

sabire · 19/08/2009 11:09

How long did you bf for Olive11? Did you co-sleep?

I think bf can be exhausting in certain circumstances. Babies are 'designed' to feed little and often and to want to be close to us at night. If you don't adjust your lifestyle to accomodate this then bf is going to be exhausting. But then so is bottlefeeding, when you have to get out of bed to do it!

Personally I don't think that the tireness that comes with bf is intrinsically pathological. I was knackered, but still able to function. Not brilliantly, but I coped. Most people I know are the same. But if you simply can't function in these cicumstances then you don't have a choice.

MrsBadger · 19/08/2009 11:09

NB on MN we may 'all KNOW that nutritionally it's mroe appropriate for a baby' but you'd be surprised at the number of people who believe the adverts and think that because it has 'immunofortis' etc it really is just as good.

Really.

There are a large number of posters who come on saying 'with my first I thought that as it said 'closest to breastmilk' it was the same thing' etc

sabire · 19/08/2009 11:11

Well, if they do (stop bf promotion) they'd also have to 'rein in' the ff 'propaganda' (and lets face it formula marketing really is propaganda - it's manipulative and full of half truths and distortions) as there's much more of it around than there is bf promotion.

Original poster
babyignoramus · 19/08/2009 11:15

Glad you don't all just think I'm mental. I also think that when people say it's rare for a woman to grow a baby too big to birth - that would be true if evolution had been allowed to run its course. By intervening and saving these bigger babies (and I'm certainly not suggesting that we don't!!), the genes get passed on. Interventions breed more interventions.

OP posts:
gypsymoon · 19/08/2009 11:16

I think you're probably right sabire....I would much rather be knackered and in bed bf bubba and at least doze than have to get up and make up bottles....that would definitely be more tiring.

bf is definitely the lazy man's option

sabire · 19/08/2009 11:17

"Nutritionally more appropriate"

It's nutritionally complete.

Formula is incomplete.

If formula was really 'complete' - as it claims to be - then it would have to contain everything that was in breastmilk.

Unless you have concluded that the hundreds of elements in breastmilk that are not in formula don't perform any useful function and that nature and hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution have somehow got it wrong.

fufflebum · 19/08/2009 11:17

I am always drawn to these threads and then regret reading them afterwards....

I really wish women put as much effort in to campaigning for better support for maternity and post natal care services to SUPPORT women in BF.

Neither of my two children have been BF much to my disappointment and sadness. I wanted to BF but, in hindsight, do not think I was given adequate support after the first birth which then made it harder second time around.

For me I was desperate to feed my baby and when I did feed her on formula after 10 days of trying (largely unsupported) to BF I thought I was giving her rat poison. I wanted to do the 'best' for my baby and to me that was BFeeding but it did not happen and of course the more stressed I got the less milk I produced and so the circle went round.

However, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we stop the debate about which is better or worse or whatever and channel more energy into supporting women before, during and after the birth of their babies!!!!

(sorry if that was a rant!)

scarletlilybug · 19/08/2009 11:18

In what way is promoting the "benefits" of breastfeeding "propaganda"? I take it you'd be even more uncomfortable with a "risks of formula-feeding" slant?

If there is any propaganda out there, it is surely in the mult-million pound advertising and dubious marketing campaigns run by formula manufacturers.

sabire · 19/08/2009 11:24

fufflebum - many of us are involved in providing practical support for women within our communities trying to bf.

But we also need to challenge the damaging myth that it doesn't really matter how a baby is fed.

There really shouldn't be any 'debate' about whether breastmilk of formula is better or babies: the fact that there are educated women on this board arguing the toss about it is a symptom of the worrying degree of ignorance about infant feeding.