'why bottle might be better than breast' - GMTV this morning

[babyignoramus]

Hasn't even been shown yet but can't imagine it's going to go down too well here!!!!

Anyone else going to watch - it's going to annoy the arse off me but I can't seem to tear my eyes away......

To ignore all the 'headline' crap for a minute - all that was being said was that while mothers were given access to a lot of information/ support on bf (Obviously some mothers have been let down in this regard), there was little information available to them about sterilising/ making up formula feeds.

I am pro-bf although I was not able to continue for long but can anyone seriously tell me they disapprove of mothers being given information which could safeguard the health of their baby whether bf or ff? Righteous indignation has its place but not in this case I think.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen women posting (mainly on another forum) about sterilising bottles, filling them with boiling water and then leaving them on the side to be used throughout the day. There obviously is a huge need for the 'danger' elements of incorrect formula feeding to be flagged up.

Has anyone stopped to think how this is making women who want to bf and are not able feel.

I think that women who choose to ff should be given accurate information about making up feeds.

But also accurate information about the risks of ff.

Because that is a risk to the child's health too, isn't it?

Sorry to jump in but what about the risks to your baby if attempting to breastfeed means you are too tired to function properly and look after your babies other needs?

well bottle was better than breast for me - needed something to bring the milk for my cereal into work in this morning and the only thing I had to use was one of DS's old bottles - still can you imagine the es I'd have got if I'd started expressing into my weetabix
Nice to see this thread is as stereotypical as they come. FF is a valid choice for people who don't want to breastfeed, and useful for women who struggle to breastfeed (although it's annoying they are used as the solution rather than fixing the actual problem by the professionals who are meant to be providing support). None of this changes the fact that ff has risks. If people accept bf has 'benefits' then the statement is exactly the same, it's just usinf bf as the standard rather than ff - which as we're mammals, is the standard.

jumpingbeans - i mix fed my ds until i could bf exclusively at 10wks, so i know what it is like to have problems with it - i would still want to know the truth though. I would hope that by more importance being placed on BF more support would be in place to help women like me who wanted to bf but found it incredibly difficult.

"Has anyone stopped to think how this is making women who want to bf and are not able feel. "
jumpingbeans, that's asked on every thread of this type. The answer is women who want to bf but struggle need support. They don't need to be patronised and lied to by people telling them there are no risks to ff.

Well I'm a mammal - I see there are birds and bugs on this thread

I don't think anyone is trying to make anyone feel guilty or ashamed for ffing their bubbas.

Someone simply claimed that there were no risks to ff and another poster wished to rectify this misapprehension.

There is a vast difference between a 'nutter' and well intentioned INFORMED individual who simply wants to supply any mother new or experienced with the accurate info.

As has been stated again and again bf and ff is a mother's choice alone - however we can't escape the facts.

The concept that there are risks associated with bottlefeeding (backed up by a huge body of evidence) is common currency among health professionals trained in the last ten years or so.

It's puzzling that so many women who've chosen to ff have little awareness of this. Worrying really - suggests to me that there is something strange going on when it comes to how midwives communicate these facts to mothers.

It also makes nonsense of the whole idea of informed choice if women aren't being told this at a time when they are actually in a position to choose how they want to feed their babies.

yes sabire, there seems to be no translation that benefits of bf = risks of ff. Because the implication is that ff produces normal, fully healthy children and bf somehow tops this with extra miracle factor.
Not that bf enables your child to be what is normal and healthy for them and ff increases the risks of certain illnesses.

"Sorry to jump in but what about the risks to your baby if attempting to breastfeed means you are too tired to function properly and look after your babies other needs?"

Both breastfed and bottlefed babies need attention and make you tired. Over all there is no evidence that ff mums are less tired than bf mothers and as a group have higher rates of postnatal depression. Their babies are also less likely to be in good health - and what's more tiring than looking after a baby who's unwell?

Well I would agree that it is a choice but not a choice like whether to have a blue or red pram IYKWIM. When DS was born I was in the position where I couldn't not try to BF because of all I knew about the health risks associated with formula. (And comments from MN saying how great it is to stay on the sofa all day and night and not faffing around with bottles)

But that suited me. I'm not sociable and don't have issues with my body. I don't feel that my breasts are purely sexual neither do I have abuse in my background. These things might put someone else at risk of PND.

Actually, I did have huge problems with my body in that ex was always making nasty comments out my shape so it was a great relief to see that there was nothing wrong with my boobs and that they worked as nature intended and did rather a fine job

But again - that's just me. I certainly wouldn't judge someone for choosing to FF as that can be the best thing OVERALL for their relationship with their baby.

What I do take issue with is how the formula companies mislead people into thinking it is the same if not better stuff and the promotion of formula in the third world. I don't think that makes me a bad person or a nutter.

I think there needs to be an entire change in the way it is communicated. If breastfeeding is normal then there are no 'benefits', only the risks of not doing so.

As a teacher, I was trained to communicate the best I could certain facts, and skills. Sometimes this meant turning things on their heads (e.g. benefits/risks) for example to make a point more forcefully, or more understandably.

Part of the trouble is that HCPs, no matter how good they are, are not trained in education, mainly. So they may not be communicating things as well as would be hoped.

There also needs to be far more emphasis on support for breastfeeding so that all the women e.g on here who wanted to, tried and failed could actually suceed. I am sure the cost of this would be more than recouped by the savings on hospital treatment for sick babies, but of course the NHS doesn't work like that, does it?

What support is avalible for women who are unable to bf, i am not angling for a row with anyone and don't want to come across as unfair, i am really interested -

there seems to be a 'backlash' against breast feeding in the media recently think its just media sensationalism and hunger for a new story

personally think mothers should be encouraged to bf a very newborn baby but if they have chosen ff from start that is their choice and right. i just think its good to try bf and if its not for you then ok

the hospital i was in had little bf advice and there were all ff mums i was the only bf twice in there

think the most important thing is that all mothers get the right advice whichever feedind method they choose

45 mins extra! I must have got more sleep than I thought...

All I remember was, with DD1, sitting up all night with an incredibly hungry baby, with tears rolling doown my face from exhaustion and pain.

Bf mummies get tired too...oh god I was tired!

sabire - I can only talk of my own experience, when I breastfed I was getting no sleep at all and was becoming a danger to myself and my baby as a result of this. When I began to ff I did get at least some sleep and was a better mother as a result of this. I admire anyone who successfully breastfeeds there babies but it isn't the right thing for everyone - sometimes the benefits of ff do outway the risks.

But if you factor in that someone else can bottle-feed a baby then FF mothers might be getting hours more sleep though. Whole nights if their DH is the helpful sort. Unlikely I know

jumpingbeans - not enough, what is there by paid professionals is patchy and dependent on luck. Voluntary organisations do a lot but obviously are staffed by volunteers. MN seems best for MNers!

jumpingbeans - there are very few (1-2% I think) of women who are physically totally unable to breastfeed.

They, of course, need proper support in coming to terms with that (if it is a problem) and with learning how to safely feed formula or donated breastmilk to their baby.

But I don't think you mean 'can't' in that way. There should be a huge amount more help (trained midwives, bfcs, lactation consultants etc) available both in hospital and in the community to help the women who struggle to breastfeed and therefore think that they can't.

I think there is a big misconception that bf is an easy, natural way too feed your baby....this is true, however it takes time and perserverence.

I was exhausted and in pain for a good 6-8 weeks with DD1. It wasn't until I had forced myself to sit through the pain shooting through me that I could really enjoy bf.

Bf is an art that must be learnt by both mum and baby. I think this basic lack of information discourages mums who don't 'pick it up' instantly.

I think there is almost too much emphasis here on people's "own experience".

I once read "the plural of anecdote is not data".

Yes, everyone's individual stories are important and every experience is different.

But for someone to generalise that out into the whole population is dangerous and wrong. And something like GMTV (don't watch it myself, so not sure of the attitudes) shoudl be dealing with the population as a whole, not individual "my babies were ok when they were ff" stories.