to think that the phrase "free nursery education for all 3-4 year olds" is a tad misleading.

[KembleTwins]

My DTs have just turned 3. They currently attend a nursery 2 mornings per week, which DH and I pay for. Now that they are 3, they are entitled to 15 hours free nursery education (so I thought. BTW it's 15 hours where we live, I know it's 12 1/2 in other areas) So we bumped up their nursery hours to 3 mornings - a total of 12 3/4 hours. HOWEVER, I now understand that the free bit is only 3 hours per day, up to a cost of £3.25 an hour (changes from LEA to LEA, I think) which means that it's not free at all. We also get the pre-tax voucher things, but we're still paying much more than we were expecting. Nursery didn't tell us ANY of this either - we got the September bill, were confused, then spent hours trying to find the info on the internet.
Just wanted to say GRRRRRR.

oh dear

but really, you expected nursery (who after all have a vested interest in taking your money) to tell you this?

our lea pays £5.65 per hour for 3 hours per day. We use our vouchers in a pre school so DD only does 3 hours and i pay nothing except if she stays for lunch club which is £2.50 for an extra hour. If DD went to the local nursery i would still have to top up the vouchers.

Hmmm, so I was just being naive then? Bugger.

Seems I live in a particularly ungenerous area too.

I don't think it is misleading. Private nurseries are different. Playschools and preschools that operate just for the 2 and a half hours a day (although a few of these playschools are open longer hours) are completely free with the entitlement. Private nurseries charge higher fees so you have to pay the extra. Still saves you a lot of money so don't see any reason for complaint. You know it is only a term time thing too right?

We're in Wales - we get NOTHING if there is a place available at a state (i.e.school attached) nursery within 2 miles of us. Fat lot of use 9am-11:45am is when we both work full time! Have searched & searched and there are no CM's in the area that would collect from the school & either take for the rest of the day or drop off at DS's current private nursery, so we're just going to have to keep paying the full cost until he starts reception.

Free nursery my arse - unless you don't need to go to work.

Ours entitlement is £8.30 for 2 and a half hours so pretty much the same as yours.

The nursery we are putting dd3 into 'gives' us £1500 off a year, which I guess isn't too bad, but I agree - what use is 9 till 11.45 unless you're not working?

Oh, I take it you pay the difference per hour? I got confused at first - the price ranges so much ie. I think the montesorri we looked at was £20 a session and I couldn't see how everyone didn't pick it from age 3 if it was free... but then I realised you had to pay the difference. Ours is totally covered, 5 afternoons a week (only 2.5 hours though) but it is bliss!

Would just like to clarify that of course I wouldn't expect anymore than 2.5 hours paid for by the government but I DO resent the fact that in the area I live in this subsidy is not transferable to a private nursery (which it seems to be in many other places) which means I don't get any subsidy due to the reality of having to work.

I just think it's a bit crap that the literature talks about free nursery education for ALL 3-4 year olds, which is patently untrue. If it said "subsidised nursery education for all 3-4 year olds, but only from the term after their 3rd birthday", then fine. I don't object to it only being during term time - after all, free state education is only really available 38 weeks per year, but I wasn't expecing "15 hours" to actually be 3 hours per day even if you don't claim it every day. Hmmm. Guess I was just being hopelessly optimistic.

but coolma that's what it;'s for

it's not a discount for children otherwise in childcare, it's to give children whose parents may not be able to afford any childcare at all an opportunity to go to nursery and do finegrpainting / sand eating / cutting and sticking etc that they might not be getting a go at at home

mrskitty, it should be transferable to privately run nurseries if the childcare you use is appropriately registered and meets the LA criteria.

Oh I'm not disagreeing that it's for those people - we used it for dd3 at playgroup last year and it was really helpful. I guess the problem I'm on about, is the opening times of state nurseries for working parents. When my eldest dd, now 20, was 3, we somehow managed to get a full time place at a state nursery - 9 till four every day. Unheard of nowadays!

Surely the problem is also that there is no clarity - Kemble and DH had to trawl through the internet to figure out what was what and it appears there is a huge difference between different areas.

Have just tried to find out what the situation in our area is and tbh I'm pretty confused by it all.

My DTs are only 18 mo and we send them to nursery 2 mornings a week. It costs a ridiculous amount of money to do this and it's all we can afford although we really could do with them going more.

Luckily I am freelance so can fill in my extra time (I work the equivalent of 3 days a week) in evenings and when DH is off but it is knackering.

I have been hanging on to this promise of free childcare as it seems like one of the ways in which we don't 'lose out' from having twins IYSWIM ie both DTs get to go, get the same amount etc. I just hope ours is one of the more generous LEAs!

Oh now I'm confused. We've put dd in for pre school in september, she'll start off doing 3 mornings and will go to 2 full days and one half day after Christmas.

All the info I've seen says they get 5 sessions free a week, I haven't seen anything saying it's only 3 hours a day. Are we going to have to pay for two of the sessions if we keep it as it is?

Different LAs may split the funded hours out differently . For many it is 5 sessions over a week (termtime) so could be 2 1/2 days or 5 am/pm for example. Others may be more flexible with less hours funded per week but all year round (a scenario quoted on mn last year, Birmingham CC iirc).

depends on your LEA

get googling

I did think this was consistent country-wide . Ours says 15 hours free, over a minimum of 3 days - so the OP's plan would be fine... as long as the nursery is registered to offer free places.

Nurseries do not implement this system as it should be run and frequently charge prohibited 'top ups'. I had a long and difficult campaign about this with one particularly deceitful nursery which got some media attention.

Basically, the way it is supposed to work is that the hours should be deducted from your bill and not the hourly rate paid by the LA.

So for example, if an LA pays £6 per hour and the nursery's hourly rate is £8, they cannot charge you the extra £2. They can, however, charge you for additional hours outside the grant and lunch etc.

The LA are supposed to 'police' this and nurseries can have their contracts withdrawn if they are not implementing it properly, so I would advise anyone with any concerns to contact their nursery about the breakdown of their bill and if they get no joy, contact the LA. That can be done anonymously.

Mrs Kitty where in Wales are you? We're in Torfaen and because I work then DD goes to a private nursery 4 days a week, I just get a subsidy straight to the nursery of about £100 a month. When I got the form then the nursery manager just said to tick 5 mornings or 5 afternoons even though we just use 4 days.

Big help for me after paying full whack for a good long while. But I agree that actual state provision leaves a lot to be desired and is no help whatsoever to working parents.

Next problem is how to organise the hours when she goes to school!

It is confusing. As far as I understand it as relevant to us, DS will get 5 half days for free, starting in the term after he turns three. This is at a local pre-school and we have his name down and a place booked as it is over-subscribed and there aren't a lot of pre-schools in the area.
Until then, we pay for him to do 2 half days at a local nursery that is private.