to think that the phrase "free nursery education for all 3-4 year olds" is a tad misleading.

[KembleTwins]

My DTs have just turned 3. They currently attend a nursery 2 mornings per week, which DH and I pay for. Now that they are 3, they are entitled to 15 hours free nursery education (so I thought. BTW it's 15 hours where we live, I know it's 12 1/2 in other areas) So we bumped up their nursery hours to 3 mornings - a total of 12 3/4 hours. HOWEVER, I now understand that the free bit is only 3 hours per day, up to a cost of £3.25 an hour (changes from LEA to LEA, I think) which means that it's not free at all. We also get the pre-tax voucher things, but we're still paying much more than we were expecting. Nursery didn't tell us ANY of this either - we got the September bill, were confused, then spent hours trying to find the info on the internet.
Just wanted to say GRRRRRR.

Hmm all the info is still only saying 5 sessions and not specifying how many days. I do know that dd's pre school will only take them for between 2 and 5 sessions and only once they are 3 so I think they only do the free places-the other one close by takes them from 2 and charges £8.50 a session (and they can do 5 full days if you want). Will check when I take her in September anyway...

Singingbear that's a lot . We only have to pay £1 for lunch cover!

Kembletwins: "subsidised nursery education for all 3-4 year olds, but only from the term after their 3rd birthday"

You need to add 'and only during term time' to that I think.

Our nursery is fairly flexible - we get 2.5 hours per session up to a max of 12.5 hours, so as our 3 y-o goes three mornings he gets 7.5 hours a week paid, and we pay the difference. But they let people just do the funded part (so they attend for only the funded portion of the session, and only in term time) instead.

Thanks for comments - I've found it interesting to read other's views and experiences. Have spent a LOT of time on the phone today, and am now clear about what I am entitled to. Seems nursery wasn't exactly pulling a fast one, but was certainly keeping certain bits of info close to its chest unless one asked very specific questions

Angelene We're in Cardiff - I've been told by the admissions officer that policy in Cardiff is that provided there is a position in a state nursery within 2 miles of home then the subsidy cannot be transferred to private nursery (regardless of the fact that the state nursery is completely unworkable for us due to the logistics of finding separate childcare for the remaining hours of the working day).

Makes me very cross knowing that if we lived in various neighbouring council areas that this would not be the case.

dd goes to a private nursery for 3 full days at £46 a day. I claim the full 5 sessions of the NEG (they will allow you to claim max 2 per day) and the nursery takes the value of the vouchers off our monthly bills spread over the whole year.

We save £140 ish a month

I was quite pleased actually

I think the trick is in the wording, it is "free nursery education" not "free childcare for working parents"

I personally think the way to go is for all childcare to be tax deductable. But I am sure there are people that would disadvantage as well, theres no perfect answer.

I don't expect "free childcare for working parents"

...But I do object to yet another postcode lottery on what you can and can't get assistance with.

Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick but it sounds like the OP was complaining that her nursery hadn't been clear about how these vouchers would affect her bill. My nursery was crystal clear about it so I was lucky maybe.

Miss Kitty, sorry I wasnt suggesting you were expecting "free childcare for working parents" and I didnt mean to antagonise you, which I obviously did. The situation in your area does sound completely unfair because you are unable to use the vouchers - thats rubbish.

the trouble is the regional variations, and each nursery's charges and opening hours.

my DC nursery is open 8.45-3, same as the school whose grounds it is in. our entitlement is to 2.5 hours per session,to a maximum of 12.5 over 5 sessions - so we pay the difference. we also pay for a cooked lunch and "minding" over the lunch period if they are there a full day

At my friends nursery, different part of country, they have No flexibility. The nursery is only open 2.5 hours morning, 2.5 hours afternoon. so no top ups to pay. children cannot do a full day here, also 2+ yr olds do mornings (obv paid for) and 3-4 yr olds afternoons only, with an hour lunch in between when no kids are in at all.as she has a 2 and a 3 yr old this means they do separate sessions and have to eat packed lunches in the car every day in between the younger coming out and the older one going in. It might be free, but its a right faff!!

crikey peedoff, that nursery sounds totally inflexible - feel for your friend.

I think the problem is that the vouchers were designed to get children into preschools before they went to school - to ensure that families on a low income could still send their children to preschool. Only useful if you are a SAHM or if you use a childminder who will take and collect from the free sessions.

It really really annoys me when the government quote the NEG when they are asked abbout the cost of childcare for parents retruining to work, becasue you can only benefit from the truely "free" nature of it if you effectively don't work.

ans th situation in wales is yet another exmaple of this. Reality never lives up to government spin!

our day nursery don't force you to top up. you only pay if you want them to have your child outside the session times which are 8.30-11.30 and 1-4pm term time. so dd will go 5 mornings during term, for free, then in school holidays she'll go two mornings that we'll pay for.

you can put 2 sessions together, so have 2.5 days rather than 5 half days, but you then have to pay the hourly rate between 11.30 and 1pm.

sounds like your nursery are very front about it ruddynorah - do you send her because you work or is it just for the education? (sorry, very nosey)

Our nursery doesnt offer this though only full days 7.30-6 or half days 7.30-1 or 1-6, so I guess they are all different.

yes but if you choose/need to work, for whatever reason/s, then why should you expect free childcare tailored to what YOU want/need? why not just graciously accept whatever "free" time is offered, if that does not suit, go elsewhere and pay for it. thats only the same as me saying I want free childcare so i can go to the shops, gym, hairdressers etc whenever I want to, without the kids.

its about the experience for the kids, not parents convenience

I don't get that "i want free childcare" point of view. There are benefits and tax
credits to assist those in real need of help eg low incomes, single parents etc

slightly different scenario, but BIL is a primary school headteacher and every year has rows with new parents who assumed their DC would start full time school from september, when in fact they go half days only till Xmas. the schools role is to ease the children in in the best way they see fit, not to pander to parental requirements for childcare!

Nursery I used to work at let you use the hours how you liked, so 12.5 hours off the total of your weekly bill.

It sounds like some nurseries are pulling a fast one and charging greedily TBH. They get the funding for it so shouldn't be taking advantage and charging parents extra slyly.

Debs40 your postvery helpful thanks.

My friend who enrolled her DD in the primary school preschool on our dorstep when she was a teeny baby has just been informed there will be no place for her!

It is supposed to be available for all children but seems not all are getting it!

I agree peedoffwithnits - but the number of times I have had people assume that all of dd's childcare is free now she is 3 is ridiculous. I have no problem paying for it but everyone is shocked when they ask how much.

Re: the school scenario - I am a primary teacher myself and I am dreading dd starting school because childcare will be a nightmare whilst she goes part time for a bit but it's the way it is, nothing I can do about it. And you are right, heads do have these policies for the good of the children.

sammyK they are not allowed to do that if the child is not in for 5 sessions though, are they? thats basically what MY bills look like too, but there is more to it - it is worked out at per hours per session they are entitled to, not per week/month. parents should have had to sign saying what hours/sessions each child does so they get the government funding through - were they falsifying things??

ginger - everyone forgets teachers are often parents themselves, don't they. They moan about schools having things on in the day - assembly, open day, sports days, training days etc and moan about having to get time off/childcare etc forgeting that teachers themselves often cannot get to such things at their own DC schools, or have different term dates to their own kids!!

My children are at a private nursery but they don't charge top-up fees. Obviously we pay for the extra hours over the ones, but they are not allowed to charge extra £ for the 'free' hours. Our nursery manager is always staggered at tales of how other nurseries rip off their parents interpret the rules.

at the moment she goes 3 afternoons cos i work pm/late nights.

from september (term after she's 3) i'm on maternity leave so it's just for the 'education.' and she'll carry on through the holidays as it's a routine she's used to from being a baby..plus it'll give me a break with having the new baby.

btw, if i was not on maternity she'd go to nursery 5 afternoons for me to go to work still. dh picks her up at 4pm when he finishes.

the nursery were very clear about it all. i asked how they manage with some kids only doinf term time and some doing less hours in holidays. manager said it works fine cos lots of parents still use them for full time care, plus the lower numbers in holidays mean staff can easily have holidays themselves with their own school age kids.

No probs Gingernutlover - I'm just particularly touchy about this subject at the moment as DS turns 3 early next year, DC2 is due in October and we're going to be utterly skint until DS is old enough to start reception!

Peedoff, I agree with you that parents shouldn't expect free childcare for working parents, but the problem is that that is exactly why it was introduced - not to allow those on low incomes to get access to pre-school, but to encourage more people (especially women) back to work. I do feel that the government are being somewhat forky-tongued about it.

We get the hours deducted from our bill. There are preschools in our area that offer 5 days of short morning or afternoon sessions, but there are very few places. And in any case those times are only helpful to parents who are not working. So the lucky few who live near the right schools AND aren't working get the free places. Doesn't sound right, does it?

re the schools....It seems they're starting to change the starting school part-time thing. Because many children are at nursery all day so the mums can work. But then when they start school it's just the morning, which is causing problems for a lot of families.
There are quite a few schools in my area starting summer born children full time now.
(they are saying that the curriculum is so play based at reception that the children are okay).