For being Judgy McJudgersons about THIS:

[Scorpette]

Okay, before I start, I'd like to point out that I am NOT a troll and what I'm about to write really did happen - I didn't step into a parallel Jeremy Kyle Universe!

I was on the bus this morning and 3 teen girls got on, one of them heavily pregnant. The pregnant one sat next to me, her friends on the seat in front and they were chatting loudly and animatedly - the front half of the bus could hear every word. The pregnant one (who I'll call pg-girl) was continuing a conversation the the other two and was fuming about a Doctor's appointment and said: "So I said to him, how was I supposed to know you can get an STI when you're up the duff? You don't need to use condoms if you're pregnant do you, the stupid twat. And he said that you do if you wanted to prevent STIs and I was like, yeah whatever - why would you use condoms? You can't get pregnant! Anyway, he then told me it could cause problems for the baby and when it's born, yeah, so I said, well I'll just have one of those Sumerian* Sections then and he was all like, we don't just give them out willy-nilly and I was like, whatever, and he gave me these tablets and shit, yeah, and said if I was going to shag someone then I have to make the guy use condoms!'. 'Ew!', said one of her pals, 'that is well rank, innit?!'. 'Yeah' said pg-girl,' that ain't happening - well embarassing to ask some random to use a johnny when you just want a quick shag!'. 'Anyway', says the other girl, 'forget about that shit - we're on holidays now, innit'. She then got 3 bottles of WKD out of her bag and all 3 sat and drank them. I was and biting my tongue. Pg-girl then got a tin out of her bag and started rolling a roll-up fag, which she put behind her ear. An old man sat opposite leaned over and said 'You can't smoke on the bus, young lady'. She then yelled at him, 'AM I smoking on the bus, cunt? NO! I'm gunna smoke it when I get off, so fuck you!'. The old man said, 'Well you shouldn't be smoking at all in your condition, Miss' and pg-girl started shouting 'What's it to you? Why do you care about my baby? Are you a fucking Paedo? Paedo! PAEDO!' and all 3 girls started pointing at the old guy and yelling 'PAEDO!' at him. The bus driver pulled over and threw the girls off, amidst much swearing. As he did so, a middle-aged woman shouted 'He's not a paedophile for caring more about your unborn child than you do, you nasty little slut!'. Not exactly a nice thing to shout, but must confess I secretly agreed.

I swear I've not exaggerated any of this. Am I being snooty or judgemental at being utterly shocked and disgusted? I just can't believe people live their lives like that. Feel so sorry for that child before it's even born!

*Yes, she really said 'Sumerian Section'. Is it some sort of ancient middle eastern operation?

poor baby - what kind of life will it have when it has a mother like that.

Reminds me of the day I went to the police station in typical essex chav town (I had lost a diamond bracelet and had to report it in Essex so i could get a number for my insurance claim). In the waiting area was pg girl (about 18 I would say), pg girl's friend and pg girl's mum.

Pg girl's boyfriend had obviously been arrested and locked up overnight and the mum was ranting 'how could he do this to you in your condition' - she was approx 5 months pg I would say. Then she followed up with 'come on, lets go outside to calm down and have a fag'. So off they all trotted and lit up outside. I was a bit shocked tbh but the double standards did make me smirk.

I wish it was bullshit, but as I've kept saying, it's not. Unfortunately, in the area I live in, every week I see lots of examples of such bad behaviour from teen mums, chavs, drunks, etc., that people would call those bullshit cliches too (cliches are cliches for a reason, after all...), but this one was so eyepoppingly extreme I wanted to share it. There is also a heavily pregnant, clearly drug-addicted prostitute working round the corner from my work (we called the police just last week when we saw who we presume is her pimp hit her), which is an even bigger cliche, but that's too depressing to even get into here.

BTW, when the girls were discussing the STI, the pregnant one really did seem genuinely confused about the whole condom issue. I went to school round here (albeit a loooong time ago) and know that the sex ed in this area has always been rubbish. I think a lot of their sex chat was bluster (well, I hope so) - I remember being that age and wanting to appear all grown-up and experienced (when I wasn't at all).

I don't live in London, I live in a town near a major city in the Midlands. The bus route goes through a very deprived sink estate and that's where the girls got on the bus.

Sadly, this sort of thing is all too common; I remember watching the whole Shannon Matthews thing pan out on telly and thinking that her Mum (if she deserves the title) and her family life seemed to be scripted by the Daily Mail Lazy Cliche team, but that was true as well. I'm very liberal and leftwing by nature, but I can't help wondering how we can stop stuff like this being so common in our society

Just hope the pregnant girl ditches her feckless mates and grows up quick and becomes a good mum when the time comes

The thing is those girls were probably born to mothers behaving exactly as they are now. And are in a way exactly in the same position as the pregnant girl's unborn baby you all feel sorry for.

That was, in part, a response to daftpunk not believing me.

I use London public transport every single day. There are not many variations of teenage girl conversations I haven't heard - just never so many extreme attitudes and behaviours in one go.
Although there are certainly issues, I think it's worth remembering that a situation as the op describes is the ultra end of extreme.

I can quite believe it. Hear that sort of thing all the time, maybe not the full whack in one conversation but yes heard it all.

Mind you I live in an area where Mums go out to the van at 10pm, buy Irnbru (or if they are feeling considerate towards their DC health diet irnbru) pour it in to a bottle, give it to the baby and park the baby in the front garden in the pram to get them off to sleep while they suck the bottle of fizzy shite. While the family sit and get drunk and smoke in the garden.

Morloth, I know it won't work! Don't worry, I'm not really suggesting it - just wish there was a bit more education at schools before girls got themselves pg.

Shame there can't be a slight leaning on teen mags aimed at girls to make them a bit more responsible. Probably for a lot of girls magazines like heat etc are where they get their education from and if they started to promote condoms in an interesting way maybe they'd have some luck.

TAFKAtheUrbanDryad - I know what you're saying and I'm not naive, I know they have to record those details, it's just sad that's all.

Clemette - yes I know they do - but we have combined teenage mums with a certain type of teenager's total disrespect for anyone else in society which is worrying and doesn't appear to happen where we're going, although I can't guarantee it I suppose.

Am at Lady Evenstar's example - letting your 11 yr old CHILD sleep with a 17 yr old? Doesn't that make them culpable of abetting child abuse or something? What I witnessed was extreme but that is WOW (in the worst way). As I've mentioned, didn't detail all the girls' chat, as most was mundane girl stuff, but they were teasing one about staying on at school to do A-levels, so they were at least 16. One of my closest friends had her son at 18 and has been an exemplary mum (despite an unsettled upbringing herself), so I can't help thinking 'If she can be so good, why can't so many others?'.

Also saw a young mum at a bus stop with her baby in a front-facing baby carrier the other day. She was smoking and breathing the smoke right into the baby's face then yelling at it for grizzling. I was stuck in a car (traffic jam) right next to them - think I might not've been able to stop myself saying something if I'd have been walking past! Do feel guilty for not saying anything on the bus, but they were so aggressive - thought they might hit me or summat if I intervened (I'm a titch and was smaller than all of them!)

Is it patronising and interfering and for my own sense of self-righteousness to say something or is it proper? I never know.

@ smoking with the baby in a sling!

Scorpette, are you sure you're not pulling our legs? Just a leeeeeeeeeetle bit?

@ FenellaFudge - NO! Oh god, I shouldn't have mentioned any of it; I was really scared I'd get called a troll or something. Like I said - it is a really 'rough' area.

I've seen women - and men - smoking with a baby in a sling before (I know!), it's just that this girl was not paying attention to where she was blowing her fumes - probably didn't connect that with the baby grizzling. My Mum smokes and my dad used to and there's quite a few pics of me and my brother sat on their laps or being held in their arms as they smoked (she gave up when pg, I'd like to point out) - although that was the 70s.

"stuck in a car right next to them"

FFS what about the fumes from your car? Teensy bit hypocritical???

i must admit I laughed my tits off reading this!

Sumerian! OMG!

but on serious consideration, yes this is pretty appalling, but then, they are just kids aren't they? I wouldn't have got preggers pre-18, but i wouldn't have made a good mummy then either...(much too sulky)

AFAIA only 5% of smoking mums give up properly due to pregnancy.these girls aren't th only ones.

YANBU though, I'd have been as judgy as the judgiest of very judgy things in your shoes.

I can relate to that. My parents were heavy smokers and smoked in the house, in the car -I dont remember there being any effort to keep their smoke away from us.
I used to have constant chest infections, productive coughs, wheezing etc as a child - was even diagnosed as asthmatic when I was 10. I missed tons of school due to it.
All these "asthmatic" symptoms magically disappeared when I left home.

Oh god, not the car thing again! Its not the same bloody thing whatsover, and is a pointless and specious argument.

donttrythisathome - I'd agree with you if she were holding a baby up to the exhaust pipe, which is more equivalent to smoking with a baby in a sling.

I didn't say it was the "same" thing, but car fumes are polluting and bad for health. Merely pointed out the hypocrisy of the OP (who did after all canvass for opinions on her reactions).

Those of you who think this is not true must have very sheltered lives, conversations like that are common place.

Although as a pregnant teen myself if i was on the bus with my friends and someone was glaring in my direction (you know cos i was one of those terrible people!) we'd say things to wind them up, so hopefully it was more like that although i can understand why someone who isn't all that clever would think you don't need condoms when pregnant, such is the state of sex ed in a lot of schools.

Conversations as outlined by OP? With or without the bust-up and getting chucked off the bus?

Please define "commonplace"?

Oh my god. What a horrendous thing to witness. If she wasn't pregnant, we would be thinking what vile, rude young people.
I still think that as well as thinking how sorry I feel for her poor unborn child.

Yes very similar ones.

Commonplace as in not rare.

< snurk >

i can believe people live,talk and large it around like this.

transgenerational cycle of deprivation sadly

ScottishMummy that is well said.

Go middle age woman on the bus, she is my hero of the day.

Sadly you need a license to get a car but any low life can go have a baby.

That unborn child has no hope