to think parents shouldn't bring their child up vegetarian?

[Picante]

Unless for religious reasons.

Yes this is a thread about a thread but I think I was annoying too many people over there so I've started my very own for people to get annoyed with me here!

I just think it's mean. Meat is such a huge part of our culture and fair enough if you're old enough to decide that you don't want to kill animals... but children should be given all sorts of food in the early years, including meat, until they are old enough to make that decision for themselves!

Well the view from the high horse is excellent which is why people are always saying "get off your high horse", its cause they want a go .

It isn't an argument either side can win, because neither side is right or wrong. So we just go round and round and round.

Then humans had better well bloody learn to fight or we will die. Should we go down without a fight? Certainly not, do you think that if a chicken could choose to defend itself with deadly force that it wouldn't do so?

It is how it goes, you can moralise about it as much as you like but nature doesn't give a fuck, the strong survive and if the choice is between eating a chicken and dying and you choose not to eat the chicken? Then evolution has deemed you not fit to live.

I don't believe we are above nature, I don't believe we can do anything outside of nature, we are as part of things as every other animal in the universe.

And if the aliens themselves turn out to be tasty? Well then, they have just learned not to screw with Earth haven't they?

LMAO, my mum always said "take the moral high ground. The view is better" when she wanted us to do something right.

Aliens will taste like chicken. Most new meats do.

each to there own.
The ONE thing that grates me about MN is the constant harping about other peoples parenting.
We are all different, we all parent in our own way, its ok to offer opinions and advice to other parents, but like religion, our opinions should not be forced on others.
(I do hope that makes sense)

I agree with Qally, but that wouldn't be fun for all of us as Morloth pointed out :P And lol, lions would be evil rulers!

Sorry, but I still can't get the idea of blue steak being a good thing?

deadflesh, that argument is just as bad as the desert island one and as a veggie I'm embarrassed for you for even bringing it up. Hypothetically though, I'd say sure, the aliens would have just as much right as a human to eat what they see as below them and we possibly couldn't argue as that seems to be the way of our lives, using what's beneath us. However, it won't ever happen, so no need to think about it too deeply [grins]

It isn't an argument for vegetarianism. It is simply a tool to help think about the subject from another angle. Please don't be embarrassed for me

The desert island question can be equally as useless if people don't try to think.

Still an embarrassing hypothetical question lol But the desert island one is equal if not worse, so I'll let you off

I'm not normal so maybe my answer above could be seen as callous I suppose lol But, the human race does think itself as superior, so how could we complain if a race more superior for us treated us the way we treat animals? But then I don't care about animals being eaten or not, I prefer to exclude animal products and byproducts of slaughter from my diet as it just seems gross to me, I don't care if other people do it to haha

Though I'm feeling quite sickened by tamiflu. I tend to ask for vegetarian alternatives to medicines but knew that it wasn't really an option in this case, and tamiflu has a gelatine capsule. tries not to think about it as swallowing the damned thing

However, how many meat eaters are genuinely paying attention to what they are eating? Many people, vegheads and meateaters alike, don't really pay any attention to what they stuff into their mouths. The e numbers, additives, crap basically.

I wouldn't complain about the aliens either. I might even get around to making a zombie plan.

But if you agree with the morality of 'don't do unto others blah blah ...' it doesn't make sense to unecessarily kill less superior animals than ourselves - unless we are perfectly happy with the idea of ourselves and our families being randomly picked for those hypothetical alien's gastronomic (not survival) delight.

For the record: Vegan I may be - but if it came down to my own survival, then on that desert island the chicken would be meat.

Hypothetically, the chicken would only keep you up and about for an extra day or two, so probs not worth it anyways

The don't do unto others crap is largely seen as "don't do unto other human beings..." rather than other living beings. Humans are animals at the end of the day, I find it really funny when people complain about others eating placentas or that scandal ages ago with the guy making food from the liposuction fat. It's just another type of meat at the end of the day, why waste all of that disgusting delicious fat when they are happy eating animal fat? rolls eyes

Ah see, I think animals are perfectly within their rights to defend themselves to the best of their abilities, as would humans if the shoe was on the other foot. It is my problem that they can't.

As I said, tough luck. If you don't like it, learn how to use tools and figure out the opposable thumb trick.

I wouldn't roll over and allow aliens to eat me and my family, I would fight and if animals don't do so then they have only themselves to blame .

Dear lawd I have had a lot of tequila I can't believe I am talking about aliens.

You can get Tamiflu syrup? My ds had to have it, as he's only 8 months old.

Lol at Morloth, if animals don't fight they only have themselves to blame. Nonsense, but funny nonsense

What do you think would go well against these hypothetical aliens? If they are more superior than us that is? Nuclear weapons maybe?

Qually: wtf?! Oo they lie. What is it with the damned swine flu hotlines, they tell you conflicting information and lie. Stupid people grumbles

MY GOD! Why do animals need a reason to be alive?! - Human's don't! Human beings are the worst race on this planet...we do absolutely no good, we kill our own kind and that of others, we destroy everything we come across and we exploit others for our own selfish gain!
And I really don't think comments to do with interesting cuisine you've had are in the right place - go join a cooking thread or something!

And another thing, whoever it was saying that folk who cut out food groups in a childs diet are "barking" should read a few more nutrition books or something - MEAT IS NOT A FOOD GROUP ON ITS OWN! I think what you are thinking of is PROTEIN and flesh is not the only kind of protein available - there's beans, pulses, nuts and seeds!
As long as people eat enough varieties to get all the essential amino acids they need then they are perfectly healthly!
Iron is easy to get and so is calcium - there is 20% more calcium in soya milk than there is in semi-skimmed cows milk!

Human beings are the only species to not only drink milk after infancy but also to drink the milk of another species - doesn't that seem strange? We're all mothers here, didn't any of you ever have mastitis, it's f*cking sore - but by drinking milk that is what you are condemning all those milking cows to. They also get their babies taken off them after usually only a few days! I wouldn't want my son taken off me so refuse to have anything to do with the meat/dairy industry!

There's no need to shout.

Non human animals would have great difficulty in acquiring dairy if they wanted it.
If they could access milk from other species perhaps they would.

There is a species of ant which milk' the caterpillars of certain butterfly species, in order to obtain a sweet fluid,honeydew, that they secrete when stimulated.

I can find just one page that says that fortified soy milk has more calcium than cows milk, full fat or otherwise.

It seems that fortified soy milk,certainly not soy milk in it's 'natural' state can have as much calcium as cows milk, but I've yet to see any evidence that it contains more calcium.

And I do eat meat and dairy but I don't believe that cutting them out, or never consuming them is harmful so long as one has a well balanced diet.

Try reading the back of cartons...
And as for 'fortified' then so be it - I think you'll find that the majority of cows are pumped full of growth hormones and antibiotics which will make their way into the milk...making it pretty much fortified too.

And just because we can get access to these things doesn't mean we should! There's things like Chrones Disease and Bowel cancer to account for that!

We have a choice.

I wonder if people believe in evolution!? People's teeth have changed - we don't have the right kind that is needed to shred through meat, and our digestive systems are much shorter and aren't as efective in digesting meat...

'MY GOD! Why do animals need a reason to be alive?! -

There is no reason for a farm animal to be alive unless they are farmed. They will starve and die of disease on their own, and not have access to vets. No one is going to keep them unless they are financially worthwhile.The countryside isn't a play park, a farmer can't afford to keep pigs etc as pets. Farm animals are bred to be eaten or for their fleece/hide milk etc-that is why they are here. I think that there would be a lot of complaints if bands of feral pigs were roaming the streets! Or a sheep was in agony with footrot and wasn't anyone's responsibility.

At the end of the day, I don't really care how other people choose to raise their children, but it drives me mad when people are so ignorant to actually believe that it is unhealthy or wrong for me and others like me to raise their children the way we think is best!

I absolutely believe in evolution, but we don't have the teeth of a herbivore either, or the gut that is required to access all of the nutrients.
We're unable to break down the cellulose in plants.

We have the teeth and guts of an omnivore.

A parent will raise the DC on the diet they eat themselves-we all do it. I don't see anything wrong with it-you just have to bear in mind that your DC may have completely different ideas once they are old enough.

"Farm animals are bred to be eaten or for their fleece/hide milk etc" - so don't bloody breed them then! Do you really think they have meaningful lives?! People were once slaves...was that acceptable?
Breeding animals is all about money! No one cares about the suffering or the way in which they are reared.

Animals were once wild, until of course us wonderful humans came along and "domesticated" them and exploited them! If we stopped breeding them, then yes there would be a lot less of them, yes, but the ones that were around would have much better lives. However that will never happen because people will never change.

Seeing other people's views, I am damn happy that my children will have different ideas when he is older!

They have been bred since early man-do you want to go for mass slaughter or fending in the wild? I think if I was a pig I would rather have a short but happy well cared for life. As a human I don't even want to live to a grand old age if the quality of life goes.
At my farm shop you can see the animals that are going to end up on the butcher's counter-they have a good open air life, they are not suffering-in fact they are better looked after than a lot of children in the world!

Obviously some people do care about the way they are treated when we have free range eggs, outdoor reared pork, RSPCA 'Freedom' foods and have many debates on the subject.

I don't approve of intensive farming but I've no problem whatsoever with eating humanely reared meat.

I don't believe that animals and humans are equal,and I find the comparison to human slaves is rather offensive.

And it's true, your children may not continue to share your views at they grow. They may continue to be vegetarians/vegans but there's certainly a possibility that they may become meat eaters.