to think parents shouldn't bring their child up vegetarian?

[Picante]

Unless for religious reasons.

Yes this is a thread about a thread but I think I was annoying too many people over there so I've started my very own for people to get annoyed with me here!

I just think it's mean. Meat is such a huge part of our culture and fair enough if you're old enough to decide that you don't want to kill animals... but children should be given all sorts of food in the early years, including meat, until they are old enough to make that decision for themselves!

I've no idea Wahwah.
I eat rabbit quite often as dp shoots and we both practice falconry. I think it's even nicer than chicken.

Much nicer than chicken. I agree. Not too fond of veal though. DS wasn't overly impressed with the taste of it. He was very impressed when Whole Foods had half a dead cow on the butchers counter. I suppose I am just not very squeamish!

The vets bill was huge for my cat to have any treatment, monkeytrousers. A farmer couldn't afford to let his animals dwindle into a happy and healthy old age-he only looks after them because he is making a living.He wouldn't want to abandon them, but it would be that or slaughter them. You can't have everyone stop eating meat without a massive problem. If it is for ethical reasons a lot of shoe and handbag manufacturers will be out of business!
I think that vegetarians should just be a happy minority (and keep quiet about dead flesh) and be pleased that they haven't got the problem.

Just on a complete side note-I do think Paul McCartney should have got some advice before he suggested a meat free Monday-a lot of meat eaters are using up the roast from Sunday. I would be quite happy to join in, but Monday is a non starter.

I wouldn't eat veal-that is cruel.

I did answer your question piscesmoon but maybe you missed it.

Yes veal production is cruel, but murdering any animals for your palate is also arguably cruel - especially so if it is uneccessary for your own life.

(Decomposing most attractively )

Pedant here, but technically you can't murder an animal.

OP said:

"Unless for religious reasons.

Yes this is a thread about a thread but I think I was annoying too many people over there so I've started my very own for people to get annoyed with me here!

I just think it's mean. Meat is such a huge part of our culture and fair enough if you're old enough to decide that you don't want to kill animals... but children should be given all sorts of food in the early years, including meat, until they are old enough to make that decision for themselves!"

My view is that children should not have religious views forced on them either (even if they are those of their own parents).

Reglious ideas and notions are far more batty than any others - vegetarianism offers no competition!

Humans are animals.

We are, but you can't murder a non human animal though.

I am somewhat surprised the thread has got this far!
An observation many posters who have a veggie diet do not indoctrinate their kids. They give the children the choice, as it should be.

I think it is mean to give your children meat! What about religion and some religions don't eat certain meats, that is not considered unfair. We all bring our children up the way that we think is right. You might bring your child up to eat animals and they might decide that is not right in t5he future. Equally a vegetarian child might eat meat in the future. All we can do is bring our children up in the way we think is right and give them the courage to make their own way in life in all aspects of a very complicated life at times.

OK

But you can:

Electrocute another animal 'to death'.

'Kill' or 'take another animal's life' by dipping it in boiling water or by breaking it's neck or by slitting it's throat.

Murder by any other name.

It's just that murder is a legal term, reserved for the deliberate and unlawful killing of a human, but of course you can kill or slaughter a non human animal.

Anyway this has little relevance to the thread.

Well that's your opinion TD, it's not a fact.

If you can murder a newborn, why is it not murder to kill animals of a similar level of sentience?

Because it's a legal term, that's all. It has a very precise meaning.

You have to do something with the animals deadflesh-they are surplus to requirements if we are not to eat them or use their hides.

I have found it heartening that most posters don't indoctrinate their DCs and give their DCs the choice. I think the choice is the important thing-it is hardly a choice if you are telling them it is disgusting.

Someone please answer me this:

Why is it more socially acceptable to eat certain kinds of meat than others? And why, in Western civilization where we claim to be so great, do we condemn other nations for eating other forms of meat?

Just a thought on the rabbit thing.

Also, meat eaters: If the only way you would survive on a desert island was by killing and eating another person, would you do it?
If you are happy eating one kind of meat, why stop at cows and sheep?

Ok - I will repeat that, should this complete abstinence from meat eating occur, it would be a gradual decline in the demand for animal flesh which would result in a gradual reduction of the livestock bred for killing.

I don't agree that children should be given a 'choice' by parents who believe that killing animals for food is very, very wrong.

I believe that parents should explain their reasons and beliefs for not eating animals to their children.

I do believe however that those parents should also try to explain to their children as many reasons as they can think of for why other families may eat animals.

The survival on a desert island isn't worth mentioning-no one can possibly imagine what they would do if they were starving as opposed to missing food for a week. I read accounts of survival and think 'I couldn't do that,' but I probably would.

A happy pig who has had a happy life outside isn't going to know that death is coming-it is quick and clean. Veal production or force feeding geese is very different. There shouldn't be a problem with rabbits-numbers have to be kept down anyway.

I've been vegetarian since I was six and the mention of the words 'desert island' makes me think of how dense that person must be - vegetarians have never heard that one before!

'I don't agree that children should be given a 'choice' by parents who believe that killing animals for food is very, very wrong.'

You have to allow for the fact that this may be counter productive. Your DC isn't necessarily going to agree! As in the case of my vegan friends whose 16 yr old son got a Saturday job in a butchers shop! Lots of Christians have atheist DCs, or atheists have a DC who becomes a vicar. Life long Labour supporters produce a Tory MP.
You cannot control what your DC thinks. You can lead by example and hope that they follow. I wouldn't give them a choice at home, if you feel strongly about it but to try and control outside the home is too rigid IMO- and likely to produce a secretive DC.

Actually it was a vegetarian who first brought up the desert island thing on this thread.

UK rose veal is not cruel.

The calves have a very high standard of life.

They are predominantly male dairy cattle, which are of no use to a dairy farmer, so would normally be slaughtered and incinerated shortly after birth.

This way, they at least get to have a life before death.

They are going to die anyway, so why waste a valuable meat source?

If my lot grow up able to question everything, especially that which is considered 'normal', and if they are able to investigate all sides of arguments before making their own minds up I will be proud of them.
Teenage rebellion is healthy

all meat is cruel. I personally think it is disgusting and makes me feel sick