to ask people why they don't want to be my friend?

[Iammummynomates]

I know this has been done to death on here, but I have no friends. There are people I talk to at the school gates from time to time, everyone knows who I am, but they all have their own circles of friends and I am just not a part of that and don't seem to be able to become a part of that.

And thing is, I don't know why. I have never fallen out with anyone, people do talk to me, they just won't cross the boundary between chatting at the school gates and moving on to more meaningful friendship, i.e. coffee, or coming round in any way shape or form. I have been there for some of them on occasion, they've chatted to me about their personal lives, some have confided about their marriages, but as soon as I extend myself and try to say, invite them round, they back off completely and will sometimes avoid me altogether. And it's not because they have such busy social lives, they are constantly round each other's houses for impromptu bbq's/drinks etc, in fact I've been standing amongst them as they plan their evenings out together, to which I am not invited.

So given they clearly don't consider me too be a friend, I've thought about asking them what is so terrible about me that it puts them off, so I would at least know, and can then change so I don't put people off in future.

IBU? Or would that seem ve childish?

I just don't know what to do really. I don't think I'm a bad person, but I've always struggled so much to make friends that there has to come a point when you admit that it can't just be that all the people I meet are horrible, that there must be something about me that puts people off. I just don't know what it is, and no-one has ever told me.

are you a bit weird?
are you stalkery.
i cant see why people woudlnt be unless you are a bit odd

sorry to be blunt honest but everyone else is skirting around hte issue

There was this nutty mum near us who invited eveyone to coffee in a weekday.
No one knew who she was( notes in kids bags) and most were at work anyway and tbh anyone would have sussed that mums meeting for coffee was not something that happened at that school unless you had some reason to do so,

I felt sorry for her and went. I was the only one there. SHe spent the whole time moaning about everyone else.

Then someone asked her about it later and she said " yes someone came, cant remember her name"

Then she moved.

Better to be weird and interesting, than a sheep!

SHe was freaky, had a really badly behaved kid that she said was misunderstood

As I am writing this I am thinking of a women I see weekly at an after school thing who I immediately labelled 'over-share woman'. She is clean, slim, educated and has decent teeth so she ticks the normality boxes that have been outlined here, but my god does she over-share.

Within two meetings I knew far more about her than women I have been studiously and steathily befriending at the school gates for a year now. It is hugely unnerving and very off putting. She couples it with constant jumping into other people's conversation with unlooked for advice, presumably because she just wants to be friendly. It backfires because she has such a hectoring tone and is generally insensitive to social signals, she doesnt seem to sense when other people's backs are going up.

I found her hugely annoying but in the last couple of weeks have started to feel bad for here as two separate women have said to me (unprompted but I suspect they have been watching my body language more closely than she has) 'my god that women is irritating,' and had a rant about her.

What I am saying in a long winded way is that it is often quite subtle issues that may be shafting your attempts to make friends and the fact you are reflecting on the problem is a good start.

It may be that you have hit a particularly unfriendly clique or it may be that you need to think about the sorts of things you say in polite chit chat and if your need for friendship is pushing you into other people's personal space too fast.

I moved 3 times in DD1's first 2 years and I had to put a huge amount of effort into meeting people and getting my 'drop in and have coffee' sanity network to a reasonable level. It is hard to make friends in adulthood whoever you are but it is possible. I think the advice about joining some other social group through volunteering or clubs is great. Its frustrating for you not to be able to put your finger on the problem- can you think of anyone who might act as an impartial assessor of what the problem might be? Asking the other mums is social suicide but I dont know- family? GP? Some sort of self confidence building course?

OP....sorry you are having a difficult time making friends...

I speak easily to people and on a very superficial level talk to many people...but making real friends is a different issue....but I always assumed that that is normal...iykwim... [head in sand emoticon]...but am happy with the friends I have, so, I suppose that is why I don't worry.

But, thumbwitch, I think, made good suggestions with the mirroring others....very subtly...

also, maybe stand back for a while and observe the groups and work out the dynamics, etc...

sometimes, people may just assume you are not really interested in mixing with them, sometimes it can be helpful to ask, if maybe you could join x,y,z event...people may jsut think you wouldn't be interested, iykwim...

but do not ask them what is wrong with you, either you wouldn't be given a true answer anyway = pointless ...or they might be to full on wiht their truths, and that could be sould destroying...

ooops, soul not sould, lol

Cathpot - you've knocked it on the head with the over-share thing. I met one of those once and she frightened the life out of me by the end of week one. I backed off pretty sharpish. She then proceeded to work her way round the enitre village 'over-sharing' in a bid to make friends, and eventually became a laughing stock. Sad really. But she could also be quite bolshy and loud, so people didn't cut her any slack or tolerate her for very long.

Metmoo - suspecting/knowing that you are unattractive can be a huge obstacle to overcome and can knock your confidence for life. But it really is a state of mind. Scrub all the make-up off Beth Ditto or Tracy Emin and put them in dowdy clothes and they say 'I'm an invisible useless ugly/fat loser'. Yet actually, both those women are hugely charismatic and popular because they believe in themselves, they ooze individuality, character and self-belief, and they make the very best of what they have without self-consciousness. They don't go 'well I'm fat/odd looking so I'll just try to blend into the background.' Outcome? Two of the hippest most influential women of the 21st century. Not easy to pull off, I know. True natural confidence and likeability is a born trait, but to an extent it can be learnt. There is a lesson there.

I was in this situation a few years ago, after I had my first dd. I had no friends, didn't have the confidence to go to mother and baby group..Then, my dd started to go to playgroup every morning and then I met some mums but completely differents than me..let's just say, I'm not at all into fashion, I look plain tbh and they were all yummy mummies etc..It took a while, but we became friends, I think I have a good sense of humour and that did the trick..I have just relaxed and then it all came...we have been going out for drinks regurlarly for the last 3 years..They organised drinks, I organised drinks...I don't know if it helps, but I understand what you feel...

Been reading this thread with intrest as i moved to a completely new area 18 mnths ago and had to start from scratch building new social network.

I don't feel i make friends easily and i feel growing up very rurally with no other kids around was a major factor in this.

The friends i have, old ones, i have a great laugh with and we can talk about anything, thats what i miss most.

Now i have read about 'over sharing' i'm feeling slightly paranoid that i tend to do this if i meet someone i feel i click with in an attempt to get where i was with my old cirlce iykwim!!

So could i have a few examples of 'over sharing'???

I understand.

I have lived where I live for five years. I have no friends here. I am relatively normal and friendly, but I have never had coffee with anyone, let alone any further social interaction. Everyone else seems to have friends - there's much hailing and waving at the school gate, but although people are superficially pleasant to me, nothing has gone further.

I've had a few humiliating experiences as well, when I've started a conversation with someone such as "How is Johnnie getting along this term?" or "Nice weather lately" and the person has answered, but then shot off to stand with someone else. Or when I started to speak to a woman and another mum came over and said "Oh, there you are" and dragged her off - while I was still speaking. I felt a right plonker, I can tell you.

It does make one start to question what is wrong - but I think that some people (eg me) send out negative vibes. It's the opposite of sex appeal, if you will. Although bizarrely I do tend to get on better with the few dads I speak to.

These women don't sound like friend material anyway, OP. You WILL make friends eventually, I had one friend at school and when she got a full time job I didn't really talk to anyone else, wasn't bothered though as I have friends outside school. Now there's a few of us and it happened naturally, at the right time, without any real effort from me. Don't let the cliquey types put you off.

Fircone, I think the disappearing off while someone's chatting thing is bad manners, but alas all too common. That's how many of the mums at the school gate here behave. However in seven years I have managed to make 3 or 4 reasonably good school gate chums and that gets me by. I don't expect a lot tbh - also because I am a Boffin people get a bit scared because - and I quote - "You must know so much!" (I am also blonde, but that is not proving to be a very good disguise, clearly)

Ironically the mum who is worst at the wandering off thing whilst being spoken to and perceiving a better offer is a hospital consultant, so probably knows even more . Perhaps her bedside manner is also lacking in RL. (Although my DH says it's because her DH isn't interested in her any more and she is also desperately trying to be queen bee of the PTA for some unfathomable reason).

Interestingly in other aspects of RL I have no problems getting to know people, except for academic conferences, which can be even worse than the school gate. One notoriously rude colleague was so awful once I winked at a mutual acquaintance we were with, and pulled his leg a bit, with, "Why are you looking over my shoulder while I'm talking? Are you hoping for a better offer??" He reddended and admitted he was looking for one of the more important people to come into the room!! We had to hand it to him for honesty really.

Not read it all. But just wanted to send you a hug and say - it is most likely that it is nothing to do with you. These days, people are so self centred. They have what they consider to be busy lives, and frankly do not have the energy to give to friendship - which is actually quite a bit.

Don't ask, as it would make them feel bad and would make you look needy. Instead, as i saw others say - try to get some other links - PTA, join a club, do a mumsnet local meet up. But focus on enjoying the time there without getting too het up about seeing the people again. That best friends feeling that some of us had a school and in our late teens is just not that common when you are an adult. Once you are more confident and have more social contact, then the friends thing will not matter so much. And because of that, it might actually come on it's own. Bit like looking for a partner - the best ones often come along when you are not looking. (But you still need to be in the game to meet them at all!)

so as I'm fat and eccentric I should be deservedly friendless then . Don't worry Iammummynomates, not everyone is quite so harsh with their friend criteria.

Re:Oversharing - being too honest about relationship troubles/mental health issues/money worries until you know someone well and have a real idea that they will not be judgmental (usually by guaging their attitude towards other people with similar problems)

Dandy - the vast majority of online friends I've made have been through moving from online via e-mail/MSN to real life meetings due to shared interests - not due to having kids the same age.

agree with others, find a genuine place to make friends, not the superficial kind standing at school gates.

it is also true that women in large groups tend to be bitchy anyway, so don't waste your time.

try a hobby, meet people you can discuss your hobby with, and make a true friendship or friendships.

I won't be holding my breath to make friends at the school gates when DS goes off to school, feel I have enough going on in life as it is without adding more pressure on myself.

Forget those other mums, they can't see past their own nose it seems...you are much better than that.

Dandylioness - that was a lovely post - very sensibel and compassionate at the same time. Said all that needs to be said really.

Boffinmum - I am considered to be a fairly confident outgoing person but I frequently move in circles where I feel like a 3rd rater because I am not as slim/pretty/rich as the other women there (I am pretty-ish, and rich-ish, but sadly far too fat to be a yummy mummy or an A-lister!!!(size 16)and I have felt that feeling of rejection as people are clearly trying to edge away from me politely and strike up a conversation with someone who is in their 'echelon' or who seems more influential/beautiful. So, it just proves that the social hierarchy is alive and well, and no matter how successful and together you are, there is always supposedly someone better to network with!

I think if you are very intelligent it can alientate the plastic women who have no interest beyond their hair, their personal trainer and their husband's bank balance. God knows, I'm not Einstein, or a career woman, but I do often want to talk on a philosophical/mildly intellectual level that leaves some women looking a bit pained!

Ahh they don't sound very nice people.I have it all to come i suppose,I did it all as a job for many years as a nanny,people are strange,i hate fair weather people,
Being a mum can be lonely sometimes,lots of mums are in the same position so should have a bit of thought&be more friendly towards you! good luck

Assuming you don't work at the moment, will you be doing so any time soon?

I found it really hard when we moved when DDs were 6 and 4. Lots of "cliques" were already established and the members just didn't want to know, but there was also a tendency for people to snap you up as new blood, socialise with you for a while then move on to the next person.

I now have a core group of friends who I feel like I'll have forever.

Working has helped a lot - they're all men and it's made me realise quite how difficult and judgmental women in groups can be (a generalisation, I know, but my experience).

I'd repeat the earlier advice to get involved in something non school related. Do something that interests you and you'll have a head-start of something in common.

Dandy - thanks for explaining that point - not sure I entirely agree - as MN is huge by comparison to the school gates - and I think if you are one of life's non-conformists, the more people you "meet" the better chance you have of finding a connection.

Agree with everyone who's said don't ask - it exposes your vulnerability and that generally scares people. Also, if you have to ask you also have to kind of accept they're just not that into you - as it were!

I talk to all kinds of people in all kinds of situations during the average day - work, lady at the checkout, person out walking dog etc but the school gates is a place I decided I was never going to excel at. The few that are my kind of people talk to me and I to them, because they're my kind of people. Don't get me wrong I tend to judge people on they're honesty and down to earthness, not income etc. Enterainment value for school yard conversation or I tend not to bother!

I have a small handful of excellent friends, a few others whom I'd like to get to know better and street loads of people who I will happily chat to but who will never be invitined home

invited, even