to regret giving my dd a gay packed lunch?

[pointydog]

Dd1 (12) was off on a fun school trip today with a mix of kids from high school.

I suggested a few things for her packed lunch this morning and she went off happily with a peanut butter sandwich, a fruitus bar, a kitkat, some dried apricots, a tub of home-made muesli and a bag of chipsticks.

The tuff kids laughed at her lunch - snorting particularly loudly at the apricots - and called it gay.

I feel like the mum in About A Boy.

IMO avoiding letting children know about the existence of same-sex relationships is part of the problem, making it seem something undesirable, to be hidden.

Why should any child be too young to understand that some women love other women, some men love other men? If they are old enough to spot that people often live in couples, they're old enough to know that.

And especially for a child who might be gay (and how will we know which of our children might be?) - surely it's better for them to know, from the start, that to love people of the same sex, and live with them, is a possible and acceptable way to live?

Message withdrawn

I don't like to think my dd's teacher would let another child get away with using gay as an insult.

Miss Sunny - what WOULD you say to my DD or Leningrad's DS?

"there will always be prejudices against homosexuals, just like there are with certain other groups of society...you will never eradicate prejudice completely...alot of it is to do with religious beliefs."

A lot of it is to do with religious beliefs, indeed this is what kids at school always tell me, but as I always point out, both the Old Testament and the Quran make it very clear that it is not our place to judge others, but God's. I have had conversations with many young people about this and it is often a conversation they find difficult to grasp.

Quran 46:9 Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. God is the ONLY one who can judge humans."

Using religion as an excuse to hurt others is a lazy way of explaining your own prejudices unless you are au fait with the whole text and its contexts.

Message withdrawn

Don't really have anything intelligent to say on this (LeninGrad et al are far more eloquent than I could be) but I must say that I'd really disappointed that people on here are willing and able to defend kids using gay as a random insult. My DCs know not to use it and would not want to use it (I hope!)

Message withdrawn

". Gay is used now to mean crap/naff."

But what the word actually means is a homosexual person. And. more to the point, it is the word that the majority of homosexual people would choose to describe themselves.

Would you be happy if your children informed you that the word "girl" now meant crap or naff? Would you just say "Oh, well, that's what it means now, my daughter will just have to put up with the word that describes a vital part of her being now meaning crap?" Because that's what you are saying gay people have to do.

Can I just ask - Victoriamac's ideas to say to children saying this sort of thing are great, but as a staff member, are you allowed to ask school children something like "are you gay"?

I'd be nervous of doing that, for fear of being accused of asking the children personal/prurient questions. Is it OK though?

That's it though isn't it, without a parent there watching the tv with children and explaining, what's mischievious bit of merriment for teenagers/adults could become twisted and misunderstood.

As long there's a march called 'Gay Pride', encompassing both the original use of the word, feeling happy at being gay and laterly used meaning of being homosexual, the use of the word in the playground will still have a homophobic undertone.

You know what I love? I love how people actually really pretend to care about this stuff on websites. If people really did give a crap then it wouldn't be an issue.

Gay (or ghey as it is spelled in online games) is now an insult, the word has moved on. The kids don't care that you find it offensive and have all this background. They just don't care, neither do I and I don't believe that the majority of the population gives a fuck really either.

VM...i'm not using my religion to excuse anything...i don't have a problem with homosexuals., i couldn't give a toss what consenting adults do with each other....i was just saying that prejudices do exist.

i'm catholic, my religion has views on homosexuality..some i agree with, some i dont.

Miss Sunny - If a child is using offensive language then they do need to know that is wrong, it is back to the whole Big Brother debate with the "n" word, if ANYONE finds it offensive, it is offensive, whether it was intended to be or not. If children are happy to use the word gay as an insult in my presence then they know I will engage them in a conversation about it. I am a secondary school teacher and this has reached a point now where it is out of control. If it doesn't bother you that your children use offensive words then I wish to God that you were one of the parents I met on parents evening. BTW I teach PSHE and Citizenship, so sex and human rights are totally appropriate topics to be teaching.

"I don't like to think my dd's teacher may speak to her this way whilst she is young, that's what I meant." - Miss sunny, your DD is 5 and no doubt very cute.

Victoriamac is talking about mouthy teenagers who will have the last word if at all possible, know it ALL, and whose life would be complete if they could manage to get the better of a teacher.

There is a world of difference between the two ages.

Some gay people knew at 5, yes.

and teenagers DO worry about their sexuality. Of course it's an issue for a lot of them.

and I don't care if the majority of the population doesn't care, I think it matters. I feel differently from the majority of the population on loads of issues, that's not a problem for me. most people are bigoted, ignorant and wrong

Message withdrawn

But how do you avoid telling your DC about gay relationships? If they ask a direct question. As mine have at various times. Even if you didn't want them to know for whatever reason, you can only avoid explaining if you lie. Which isn't a good idea.

Miss Sunny - something along the lines of "F says she's got two mummies & they're both coming on the trip tomorrow. How can she have two mummies instead of a mummy & a daddy?"

I hope that if they used gay as an insult you'd correct them.

Message withdrawn

DP, I was just using your quote as an example to show what the kids would say. Sorry.

BS - Yeah, it may well be dodgy ground to ask a child if he / she was gay and I would NEVER ask a child this sort of question out of this context, but the very fact that a child has brought up an insult like this pretty much shows me their reaction. I would happily call a parent and explain what I had said to the child and why.

Going off topic a bit, but I also always challenge kids who use the insult "freshie or FOB," to kids with African names or accents, so awful.