to regret giving my dd a gay packed lunch?

[pointydog]

Dd1 (12) was off on a fun school trip today with a mix of kids from high school.

I suggested a few things for her packed lunch this morning and she went off happily with a peanut butter sandwich, a fruitus bar, a kitkat, some dried apricots, a tub of home-made muesli and a bag of chipsticks.

The tuff kids laughed at her lunch - snorting particularly loudly at the apricots - and called it gay.

I feel like the mum in About A Boy.

As a teacher yes we flipping well should challenge those words you listed Kazzi- not ban them but challenge them and their use. Kids use those terms as bullying insults and I won't tolerate any form of bullying in my classroom. (although must admit to getting a bit confused when Kids were shouting "shut up you muslim" to each other and I was all set to wade in with the racist incident report until they both got the giggles and told me they were cousins and both muslim. I still had a bit of a word with them about it though as other people may have been upset by that.

Some people may be able to laugh such insults off (or appear to) but others can't and I think we have a responsibility to suppport all vulnerable members of society- especially the ginger spotty fat gay ones.

Message withdrawn

hatwoman, just re-read your post...duh...I blame the sun...my brain is not working....wonder if I would be unreasonable to have a 3rd shower today....sigh...

Thandeka, the point I am making by using those words as an example is that if a bully is hell bent on bullying they can make an insult from ANY word, my daughter has ginger hair.....thanks to political correctness people call it strawberry blonde! It disgusts me, my daughters hair colour is GINGER not strawberry blonde and I will always teach my daughter to be proud of who she is!

You've probably just insulted every ginger person who happens to have spots and be fat and gay, didn't stop you from posting it just to make your point though eh!

Action should be taken against any form of bullying, as long as it IS bullying and not harmless banter, and once again harmless banter DOES exist......well it does amongst people like myself who just chill out and don't take life too seriously!

Bloody hell, you dare to have a different opinion and everyone jumps down your throat!

I don't necessarily agree with all of leningrads comments but I do respect her for speaking up for what she believes in.

I just personally think theres bigger things to think about in life than the word "gay" and whether or not people who take life too seriously find it offensive.

From the DCSF website:
^Pupils may also experience indirect homophobic abuse, not directed towards a particular person or group, but used when remarks are made to pass negative judgement, such as 'your bag is so gay' or 'that ring tone is gay'. It is important for all staff to challenge pupils, explaining the consequences of using 'gay' in a derogatory way. It might be time-consuming at first, but a consistent 'zero-tolerance' approach to such language is central to achieving progress and an environment in which being gay is not thought of as being inferior.
...
it is essential to challenge homophobic language. It is the role of governors to ensure heads and teachers and other staff feel supported in doing so^.

I am totally with Thandeka, ALL types of inappropriate language must be tackled. I would also have added that it is also the role of PARENTS to ensure teachers feel supported in tackling this.

MissSunny- you wrote: "We didnt have any homosexual (that we knew about) kids at my school. "

I misquoted that to: "I didn't know any homosexuals at school" as this is a long thread and couldn't find the post- I don't think that changes the statement as I didn't say you said "there were no homosexuals in my school" but I said you didn't know of any.

Oh and lecture style?! Apologies if you took it to be that- I like to think it was mainly an informed rant but while we are gently trading insults can I say how rude I thought you were to say to Leningrad "Lenin i couldnt be bothered to read all 3 of your posts but got the general idea." (Directly cut and pasted)
Perhaps if you actually read them you might understand more about where we are coming from.

Fair point about that being someone else on the Enid Blyton front- there were a fair few posts about good old Enid- but I do stand by its naive to still think the term Gay means happy. It has moved on as a term.

The tone of your posts made it seem like you thought teaching your child about homosexuality would harm them in some way. Apologies if this is wrong but at some point your child is going to encounter gay people you are not going to be able to "protect" them from that forever and research is starting to come out that learning about different types of relationships from a young age means children are more likely to be tolerant and accepting of such relationships. Primary schools are starting to do great work about tackling homophobia- perhaps if you are so against your child learning "about it at such a young age" you
should check with your child's school.

Hi Kazzi-
I do agree with you to some extent- about there being a difference between banter and bullying but the key is the audience- and in a school often there is a wider audience that the banter maker and the "butt of the banter". Mild joking between good friends who aren't being overheard by anyone who could get upset or offended is one thing- general banter directed at one person (while everyone else laughs at the one person) is another.

And apologies if I offended any "sunshine brown, sensitive skin, curvacious, same sex interested individuals." by calling them vulnerable

And yup that was tongue in cheek banter and delivered to an audience unknown- so Thandeka adds a further apology posting one thing then doing another- just highlighting a quagmire quite nicely I feel.

i came late to this thread but agree with Riven - you wouldn't think it was harmless to use the word 'retard', 'spastic' etc as 'harmless banter'

Leningrad is spot on about the corrosiveness of hearing 'gay' bandied about every day

it's not 'political correctness', it's avoiding being a rude oaf ffs.

it is tough growing up gay or bi. i am so heartened by all the wise comments from teachers on this thread.

i spent a decent chunk of my teenage years conflicted and miserable about my sexuality, and while school was not to blame (was more my parents' religion that was the problem), had school been a 'safe' place to be out i might have had more confidence to come out much sooner and realise there was nothing wrong with me.

but the OP's lunch sounds delicious

people who bleat about PC gorn mad are usually aggrieved at not being allowed to say things which they think are funny but which they know damn well are offensive

"harmless inult" pmsl

I am one of the most insulting people I know, but I don't pepper my speech with cheap hurtful crap like "gay" and "spaz" fgs

nobody really thinks this is OK, do they?

if either of my sons used this as an insult I would raise the roof

General banter directed at one person while everyone else laughs is usually bullying, as I've stated banter has to be a 2 way thing, if a group of lads down the pub jokingly call a mate gay and he laughs it off with them its banter, if a group of people use it as an insult to deliberately upset someone its bullying!
People have the right to have banter regardless of whether others can overhear. People shouldn't have to walk on egg shells for fear of offending someone.
Bullying is wrong but unfortunately it will always exist, and it exists because of people (as I've seen on a few posts on here today) like to pick on people who think differently to them, look differently, act differently, have different lifestyle choices. I've personally been belittled on here a few times today just for speaking up for what I believe in yet not once have I belittled anyone, just put across a few different points of view.
Not very good role models imo from people preaching that bullying is wrong!

and I think the post above my previous post by greensleeves proves my point

Hi Kazzi,
Out of interest where do you feel you have been belittled? As I don't remember seeing a post where you have but again that could highlight nicely someone can think one thing about what they are saying and the other person takes it another way.

Afraid I disagree with your example down the pub- the butt of the joke has to laugh it off otherwise there is fuel to the fire. I personally don't see that as harmless.

please don't pretend on this thread that words like spaz are no longer used.
it is along with a lont of other rude words used to describe disabled people

well said seeker

I'm not pretending it's no longer used - but no one would come in here saying "I don"t know why you're getting upset - it's only short for spastic after all" Which they would have done 10 years ago.

Sorry if I didn't express myself clearly. My dd was grounded for a week in year 5 for using that one, by the way.

Sadly I have heard "paki" used in recent times. I was so naive, having worked in Hackney I honestly thought that racism didn't exist in the teenage generation, but in an inner-city school in Manchester it was alive and well. Kids kept saying it was just short for Pakistani and refused to give up using it. I had several "enlightening" conversations with parents: "Yeah, my granddaughter won't be doing her homework this term coz it's about Pakis." (we were doing a project on Islam.

and

"We went to look at that place where T is meant to be doing his work experience, but he won't be going there, it's full of Pakis."

So so sad. School is often the only place these prejudices are challenged.

"I just personally think theres bigger things to think about in life than the word "gay" and whether or not people who take life too seriously find it offensive."

Couldn't disagree more, Kazzi - I think prejudice definitely falls into one of The Big Things to Worry About and doing everything we can to address it one of our main duties as parents. And worrying about whether or not someone is offended also falls into my category of Important Things to Teach my Children.

As for the inference that it is only people "who take life too seriously" that care about whether or not people are hurt by words we use or about deep-seated prejudice ... I'm not sure where to start.

LeninGrad, can I echo some of the comments on here about your considerable graciousness on this thread? Some of the posts here make me truly cringe and I can't imagine what it must be like for you to read them. You're one classy broad!

I thought there'd be more chat about chipsticks. I have only just re-discoverred them.

Calling something 'gay' is clearly derogatory since, through common usage, it has come to mean something which is silly/stupid.

It had that meaning when I was growing up in Canada in the '70s. It was used a LOT then by kids at school and even then I was shocked that people thought it was OK.

very, very nasty.

agree with Riven, that this is in precisely the same category as using 'retard' or 'retarded' as an insult.

I'd jump on my kids (or visiting ones) that used language I didn't like for any reason. I was brought up using no swear words, it is perfectly possible (of course I swore as a teenager, and expected to get told off if caught, and then I grew out of it).

Children can be very thoughtless and it is part of helping them to grow up into nice people to remind them of the impact of what they say and do. Ultimately it's for their benefit too, as well as everyone they come into contact with.

My children have picked up "damn" and "hell" and dh and I don't find that upsetting, but we do make sure they know that other people might find those words upsetting if they are religious for example (we are aetheists, so the words are meaningless to us). So to avoid using them.

It's a bit pathetic to have such a small repertoire of insults that you have to use words that are broad brush offensive when indulging in a bit of mutual banter in any case IMO.