AIBU to worry because I can't afford to privately educate my children?

[LaydeeStardust]

I hope this makes sense-I've had wine!

We've got 4 bright and happy children,aged 4 and up.

DS2 is 14, and is apparently extremely bright and attends our local inner city state school which gets average results

Both his own school teachers and two friends who teach at different private schools have told us that he should attend a private school to give him the best possible chances in life.

One of his teachers actually said we are letting him down by not sending him to a private school

We earn too little to pay for private education ourselves so he'd have to apply for an assisted place (we both work in social services and health)

we honestly believe in the state system,but maybe we can't really say that because we don't earn enough choose?

DS2's done his own research and is now worrying that he won't be able to get into a good uni, or get a good job etc if he doesnt go to a private school....and I don't know how to reassure him!!

I'd be so interested to hear other peoples' views on this-both me and DH went to state schools then uni, but if anyone feels I'm living in cloud cuckoo land to believe that our children will achieve whatever they want without a private education please tell me!!!

Thanks in advance!!

AFAIK (sorry if I'm repeating) assisted places no longer exist. He could apply for a scholarship, or maybe a bursary.

However I don't think private is the be all and end all. I was PE (assisted place) and the standard was high, disruption was low, class sizes were small and I got good A levels. My brothers have had a mix of CE and PE and none of them have managed grades as good as mine but I believe that's down to personality (I was a dork ) and first child syndrome rather than the quality of the education. FWIW bro no 2 went to my school until 14 and hated it. Bro no 3 went to CE until 6th form and loves PE. You never know what's going to work - if your DS is motivated and hard working it's a bit of a waste of time. Bro no 3 was sent due to slacker tendencies and it paid off.

LadyHooha - I didn't realise you knew which city I lived in. But I'm not exactly in that area!

I imagine most Manor (and other big council estate) children do go their local school, as there is little other choice if you don't have a car and are miles from any other "choice". What's wrong with that, though?

Sorry, UQD - I had worked the city out from several of your posts! I know it well...

What's wrong with that is surely that the children who might fare well and go on to achieve something at a better state primary/even an average comprehensive just don't stand a chance. Very, very few children can fight their way out of what's essentially a rotten education. If their parents can choose to send them to a better state school, why on earth wouldn't/shouldn't they?

LadyHH you're right it's not fair, so arguably you're just one teeny step away from an advocacy for ditching all choice, including private education. If everyone had to invest their time and neuroses into the local schools as their kids had to go there I reckon the standards of all would leap. Now surely that would be fair .

Nope we'd be back to home education for those who could afford a private teacher and the rest not able to read and write as public funds would be slashed due to lack of pupils.

Course you wouldn't. Most parents wouldn't give up work to HE and most parents still believe their children should mix with other children. + why would public funds be slashed? The lobby for funding for education would be so strong with all those currenly private paying parents at the fore shouting so loud that spending and resources would soar.

Smee, I disagree that the standards would leap if you abolished the private sector. Kids of affluent parents would just ghetto in small pockets and go to school with each other. You wouldn't suddenly get kids from the private sector attending sink schools.

I also think it's quite patronising to say that an influx of privately educated kids into a school would raise it's achievement levels. The kids a my local state school achieve pretty well without the need for my three.

I completely disagree if my children couldn't attend private school I would give up work immediately as I could afford to, as could many others.

Personally, I think all schools should be independent - but that's another argument!

It's a nice idea that our local school would be improved by my DCs going there, though.

I can't see at all how abolishing private schools would lead to a significant rise in standards in state schools.

Private schools are natuarlly located in more affluent areas where in general, standards are already pretty high. The places where the worst performing schools are located are those where between 0 - 2% of the population attend private schools so its perfectly obvious that that's not going to have an effect. And as for areas where in excess of say 15% of the population attend private schools (i.e. enough to make an impact), well they already mostly have over-subscribed successful schools. The net result would be an even greater polarisation surely.

Okay, so I did lob a bomb in, as it amuses me. But if we all agree the system is unfair and that some miss out, well why not be radical? There's lots of ways we could make it fairer and avoid the middle class clumping. For a start you could do banding in terms of abilities. Lots of LA do this at secondary already. So each 11 year old does a test to determine academic levels - each school then has to take a percentage of kids from each band.
+myredcardie, I wasn't trying to be patronising - actually I don't think the standards would increase radically at all of you did what I half jokingly propose, as lots of state schools are fab and as you can probably tell I'm a great believer in them. There are some bad ones I agree, but if we all had to use state schools, I think it's arguable that more care and resources would go into improving them.

My children go to the local school. They all seem to be doing fine. BUT sometimes I feel very guilty that we've just sent them locally. We are not busting our gut to pay school fees. We haven't lied or cheated to get them into the 'best' local state school. I don't think I would be a better parent if I'd done any of the above to get them into different schools. But it is difficult not to feel that, as a parent, you should be going to extreme lengths to chose a school for your children - and that by doing so you're actually a better parent.

You will always get a 2 tier health/education/legal system, George Orwells 1984 springs to mind, some pigs are more equal than others and whenever equality is attempted it ends up dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator. And then we start again.

Smee, I teach in a very good state primary. The kids get a good education not just in terms of their SATs results (although we get a very high L5 score) but it's very rounded in terms of good quality PSHCE and citizenship and all that stuff. Plus good outdoor space.

I pay for the extra bits that the state could not possibly fund inc swimming pool, huge range of sports taught by qualified instructors, music tuition from Reception by qualified music teachers, small class sizes, full time TA support, amazing range of visitors and workshops. Oh and the very good wraparound care. State schools can never offer this simply because they are funded by the state.

I am not paying because I'm elitist or because I think the quality of teaching is better. Obviously! I'm simply paying for much of what other parents choose to pay for outside of school.

I don't think banding and busing helps either. If you start doing that you loose the community aspect of school. Also, there's not always a direct correlation between attainment and behaviour. So in theory, you could end up with all the PITA bright kids and the PITA less bright kids clumped together in one school!

lose not loose, sorry!

Not read the full thread. A school is just a school. An education is much more than the classes and results that you come out of the schooling system with. Personally I would never send my children to private schools - but that is my choice. People can do what they want.

But I will say - the so called well meaning friend who is telling you that you are disadvantaging your child by not putting them into a private school is neither a friend (given they must know your financial situation would not allow this in any case), and is also blinkered.

If your child is bright, he will excel wherever he is. I think you should put your efforts into supporting him in doing well and enjoying life

I know, I know - all of what you say makes sense, but still two wrongs don't make a right. Of course you will always have inequalities whatever you do. Human nature necessitates that as a status quo. Thing is if the system is unfair - which all of you seem to agree it is - then why tolerate it? I'm not saying banding or the abolition of the private sector is going to answer all the problems, of course it wouldn't, but surely it would be fairer?!

post script to myredcardigan: you're right about banding, but actually it does work in inner cities where the population is dense - in our borough kids at most have to travel a mile to school, so the school is very much local still.

At the end of the day all you can do is make the system work for you the best you can.
My cousin has spent her life sat on her arse claiming benefits and that's her idea of making the system work.
I on the other hand have made the tax and banking systems work for me and own and have more choices than she could dream of, we're both equally as clever but have played the system differently.

But...Life isn't fair. I'm not saying that in a smug way but children are growing up will all sorts of inequalities.

Is it fair that some children have acres of garden whilst others have none?
Is it fair that some children are fed a well balanced meal and others junk?
Is it fair that some older kids have a desk in their bedroom or another area of the house that is condusive to studying whilst others share a room with siblings and the only other room has a tv in it which is permanently on?

There is so much that is not a level playing field before you even consider school. Every child has the right to a good standard of education. Every school should have the facilities and the staff to deliver this and every tax payer, whether they use it or not, should pay for this.

IMVHO, the unfair gulf is not between good state schools and the independent sector but rather between good state schools and those that are failing their intake.

You see that's what I'm objecting to whereever. That 'only me' approach. I'm calling for us to crochet a banner, stand up and shout not simply accept. I know I'm naive, but am sick of everyone just saying ah well.

Smee, obv banding is most relevant to secondary schools. Glad it's working in your area.

Life will never be fair red, but that's my point. we do too little to make it fairer.

I think the only children who really miss out in the state system (in that they have potential intellectually to do well but don't) are bright children from deprived backgrounds that lack the confidence to resist a peer culture of non-attainment and have little parental support (this is especially true of children in care).
Middle class children with good parents do well anywhere, the actual difference in exam results they achieve between private and state education is just a few percentage points.
Nobody worried about this so much before school league tables, we need to stop fretting and just send our kids to the local school if its average or above.
I may be a bit naive but in my experience almost all teachers respond to children who ask for help or show an extra bit of interest, targeted help to boost the results of the children at the top of my post would improve social mobility and benefit society more than a few middleclass families chopping and changing schools would.
And another thing, failure is not attaining the goals you set yourself, if you want to be a bricklayer and you manage to get experience at school that helps you achieve that you are not a failure and neither is the school, even if you only have a few qualifications.
Quattrocento, and others keep mentioning that their schools are very diverse even though they are private, at my local private school there are african parents, chinese parents, asian parents etc, but... they are all accountants, lawyers, doctors or property developers, so not really that diverse in my opinion.

But even in communist states things are never fair. The Animal Farm analogy was mentioned earlier.
It's the Tragedy of the Commons and all that.