To wish that people would ask before letting their children pet/ touch my dog

[iggypiggy]

ok this is my first venture into this area...

Am getting increasingly concerned at the number of people that let their toddler/ child just walk up to my dog and touch him without asking and I am starting to wonder why this keeps happening? It doesn't seem like a very safe thing to do? Yesterday, for example, a toddler ran up to my dog and repeatedly grabbed at his tail - while the father smiled benignly on from a distance I said 'luckily my dog is friendly' and he just carried on smiling.. But how on earth could he have known my dog was ok with children?!

I have a labrador - he's very friendly, good with children but not too fussed about saying hi to people when we out on a walk, he too busy playing with toys/ sniffing etc. So he kind of avoids them.

This keeps on happening - repeatedly children approach my dog while their parents are there and just start touching.

Am considering telling children - well the ones old enough to understand - that they really should ask first - but I would have expected parents to tell them that?

AIBU - or should people really ask first?

Incidentally - I have been asked by children sometimes and I always say yes.

fufflebum - the eye level thing does confuse dogs doesn't it. The body language of young children is different to that of adults too.

I think it is better for both the dog and child if people ask first. That way we all know where we are!

YANBU. I don't want my dc's to be scared of dogs, but I don't think that would happen just because I ask the owner if it is ok for us to approach their dog. In any case, a bit of wariness is a good thing with any unfamiliar animal IMO. besides, it is the polite thing to do!

As a little aside, this morning I went for a walk with ds (2.4yrs) and dd (5 months, in the buggy) when we met a border collie and her owner. ds said "hello doggy", as he does, when we were about 5 metres or so away, and the owner asked if he wanted to stroke the dog. He said yes, and she said "sit" to her dog. I've never seen ds get on his bum so quickly. There they were, ds and dog, both obediently sitting on command

Sunnygirl, I don't agree that it's like putting ourselves in dangerous situations. Owners make dogs more dangerous by taking them off the leads, giving them the freedom to approach people, and losing the means to pull them off a child if they jump up or worse. And children don't have adult common sense and care.

Should a child run over by a speeding car accept some of the responsibility as they put themselves on the dangerous road? Forcing owners to keep dogs on leads would remove some of the danger from the situation, just as speed limits do.

YANBU. This happens to me quite a bit too. My dog is not used to small children and he doesn't like them, so I have to be ultra vigilant when little kids are in the vicinity. It really amazes me that parents of young children allow/encourage their kids to approach unknown dogs

I always ask before DS strokes a dog and usually ask if I can hold the dog's collar. Yesterday a woman announced very quickly from a distance that her dog wasn't friendly which I appreciated.
I also declined a young man's offer for DS to stroke his pit bull

What happens when your dog IS on a lead and children approach it,unsupervised and without asking ? (it happens ALL the time)

Should we move on to all dogs should be muzzled in public then perhaps all dogs should not be allowed in public areas ?

My dogs have never bitten anyone but I routinely tell children that ask to pet the dogs that they can't (resulting in te odd offended parent - "they ONLY want to pet it") to avoid the situation that was outlined earlier..

Is it not possible to co-exist anymore ? I, personally don't walk my dogs in highly children populated parks but in country parks etc where there is plenty of space - in those areas surely everyone should be able to get along amicably and reduce risk situations to everyone by sane behaviour ? ie the dog owners should have proper control over dogs on or off the lead and parents should have proper control over the childrens behaviour in areas where dogs are off the lead.

I do understand that those who are irresponsible ruin for everyone else but hysteria about muzzles and leads is uncalled for IMO.

Porcupine - of course drivers have a responsibility to look out for pedestrians and especially for children, but if the child is old enough to be allowed to cross roads unsupervised, then they do have to take some responsibility for the results of their actions, and if they are not old enough to be crossing roads on their own, then the adults responsible for them should be taking that responsibility.

In reality, of course, the degree of responsibility each party shares varies according to specific circumstances - if a driver is not paying attention and knocks over a child who has done everything they should to cross safely, then it's the driver's fault, but if a child runs out without looking, and the driver has no time to stop, then whilst the driver should have been looking for children by the road, clearly the child's behaviour put them in harms way.

If a child puts themselves in a dangerous situation by approaching a strange dog, then either they or the adult responsible for them must share some of the blame if something goes wrong. In the situation you described, clearly the dog owner was entirely at fault, as the child did everything 'according to the book', but that doesn't mean that it's not safer for a child to ask before going up to pet a dog than to simply rush up to a strange dog.

YANBU my heart always used to sink when children noticed our terrier and came scampering towards her as she was very cute looking but totally unfriendly and prone to snapping.

A lot of parents/children DID ask if it was okay to stroke her and I always felt guilty saying 'no she's a bit grumpy and might snap at you' , but many didn't so the onus was then on us to hold the dog away from the child and explain to them why they couldn't touch her, which was a bit stressy.

We always had her on a lead eg in a pub garden, or anywhere where children were likely to approach her, but it still happened a lot.

I have 2 dogs and have always taught my children to ask before petting and never approach a tied up dog.
I personally don't ever tye my dogs up, not because they are untrustworthy but because I
don't believe a dog should be out of an owners sight ever in public!

One of mine is muzzled when in an area that other dogs may appear off lead as she is a bit protective (not a biter but a barker at other dogs) I feel it's my responsibility to make sure she is not able to even nip another dog so she is muzzled.

I think if a dog shows aggression towards children at any time it is safer to have it muzzled when in public. Personally If one of my dogs bit a person (adult or child) and there was no obvious act of malice from the child or adult I would not keep my dog and would probably have them put to sleep

I understand that people love their pets like their own children but they are Animals and should be treated as such.

I think that if a child approaches your dog, you are completely in the right to say "my dog isn't used to children" and say to the parent that he/she should always ask first.

I go to a park most days and there are lots of dogs. My kids assume that all dogs are nice. I insist that they ask the owner politely, and sometimes I say 'I'm not sure that dog is used to children' and we walk away.

But I have had two bad experiences. Once, my kids (and a third little girl that I babysit sometimes) were feeding the ducks by a pond, and a large puppy (from a distance, I couldn't tell if the dog was puppy or adult) came RUNNING at full speed towards the kids. It jumped on my son in a very affectionate playful way my DS was terrified, and I was terrified that one of the kids would fall in the water. Let's just say that I've had a very strong word with the owner, which included many words that I shouldn't have said in front of the kids.

Another time, two scary staffordshire terrier went right up to DS who isn't notmally scared of dogs, but he was terrified. So was I. I asked calmly to the owner that she calls her dogs, and she called them and they didn't respond, I asked her again and her answer was very aggressive. She could see that my son was in distress.

If you have a dog, it is up to you to ensure that it is under control, and I would not be offended at all if someone would tell me 'no your DSs can't pet my dog because he's not used to kids'.

Magnolia - actually a muzzle would have been a good idea, we should have thought of that. She didn't aggressively attack anyone, but would very occasionally snarl and do a 'warning' snap in the air if a strange child moved quickly towards her face.

Some children were quite persistent in wanting to touch her, even after being asked not to - a muzzle would have removed any possible danger and also provided a visual warning to leave her in peace.

BlueberryPancake - that is awful too, even if the owners think their galumphing great dog is 'wouldn't hurt a fly' it doesn't stop them being horribly scary if they are charging towards you or their children

I loathe people who say they hate dogs, especially when their children are horrid. The only people who hate dogs are those who have never been brought up to like or respect animals.

mY DC'S love animals as we have always had a pet. I always encourage to stroke a dog/ cat after i have checked they are ok. Although i must admit i usually stroke any dog passing me without asking, but i have never been bitten.

I wouldnt let my own kids just run up but although i would presume a dog off the lead was safe, it may become startled by a young child and snap.

IMO it usually is kids that cause dogs to snap more than anything else as many people allow children to maul dogs.

Have not read all the posts so responding to the OP.

YANBU. I allow DD to stroke a dog on invite by the owner only. And even then I proceed with caution. I want DD to know it is not ok to stroke any dog, and to be wary of any dog she does not know, but also I do not want her to be afraid of dogs as many dogs are perfectly fine being petted. She needs to know to check it out with the owner and if that is not possible then leave it alone.

yanbu - some parents don't think & others don't supervise their kids. People let their dogs run wild in our local parks and it's dangerous for others & other dogs. It's responsibility on both sides that makes a difference.

Having reviewed the more recent posts on this thread I do think it would probably be better to teach DD to keep away from dogs altogether. I find it sad that people can't understand why people are scared and insist that if they are bitten etc then it is their own fault, but often dogs are not well behaved, their owners have not trained them properly and they just run up and scare you. As it is impossible to tell which dog is which and which owner is which why risk it. But even if you try and keep away owners often sort of "force" their dogs on you so how you get around it all is anyones guess.

carmen I think it is unfair to say that those of us who are scared shitless of dogs obviously have not been brought up to like or respect animals. I was brought up around plenty of animals but dogs are the only ones who have ever attacked me so I think my extreme caution is utterly reasonable.

I have a bassett hound who on the whole is very well behaved and trained very well. (Come back is a bit lost on her as she is lazy and thinks you should go to her).
Because she is different and comical to look at people, not just children, think they have the right to go up to her and stoke her.
If she is on the lead and a child asks to stroke her I make her sit and let them pat her, telling them not to touch her huge ears. I also tell them please don't ever pet her if she is tied up.
The amount of people who have tried to pet her when she is tied up is unbelievable. She feels cornered due to being kicked whilst tied up and will snap at people who get too close and annoy her.
I have had mothers mad at me because they have let thier toddler run up to a tied up dog which has then snapped at them. When I point out that it is a stupid thing to do and you can never be sure of how a dog is they say 'oh he loves dogs' or he won't hurt him'
My dog doesn't know that.

When she is tied up now she has a muzzle on which seems to stop people going up to her. I also tell people she bites. If they are told that and then still try and touch her more fool them.

I would like to add to this debate and say that it is not just dogs that many children need to be taught to approach with respect and care. I am personally of the belief that [shock horror] ANIMALS BITE.

Cats bite.
Horses bite
Hamsters bite
Hell, even spiders bite although you can't usually feel it
Funnily enough, dogs bite too.

Working in a busy riding school, with dogs running around and lots of horses I am constantly amazed at parents who just allow their kids to run riot around the yard poking at the horses' faces, trying to pick up strange dogs etc.

I love children and will happily spend hours with them teaching them how to approach animals safely and to have an awareness of your own personal space etc (part of this is my job). I also love animals and try to have an understanding of how they might feel and react in difference circumstances. What I DONT love is parents that seem to have no conception that their child might be at risk from an animal.

As a child I was taught not to approach dogs without asking the owner, to allow the dog to sniff my hand etc... and if I didn't and got growled/snapped at - I was told off by my parents and had to take responsibility for MY mistake. Ditto with approaching and handling horses. If I got my foot stepped on or a sly nip for being rough with the saddle or something, I was told it was my own fault and next time I remembered to be more careful.

These days I do feel too many people place the burden of responsibility for the situation on the animal rather than on the child/parent of the child which I think is unfair.

JMHO.

Watch to the end

So when people get bitten by dogs it is their own fault?

How is my fault if a dog runs up and bites me for no apparent reason in the middle of the high street? Why do I have to take responsibility for that?

And then of course you get told "it's only a scratch" as you try to stem the blood.

If my DD ran up to a stranger and bit them drawing blood I would not blame the stranger.

If a car suddenly drove up on a pavement and ran my DD over (to follow analogies from esrlier) I would not blame myself or my DD for not having been paying proper attention.

I just don't understand it. Bottom line is if a dog runs up and hurts you then that is not your responsibility and to say it is is frankly bizarre.

Tinofspam - I think it's all about who approaches who.

If a person approaches a dog to pat them in the dog's own 'space' (eg if it is tied up, or behind a fence in its own garden, or on a lead with its owner), then the person really does do so at their own risk as it was their decision to approach the dog.

If a dog is loose and free to approach people, then it is the owner's responsibility to make sure that the dog is controlled and not posing a danger to anyone.

What I find in my local park is that it's nearly impossible to 'avoid' dogs. Nearly everyone I meet there is walking their dog/s (during the week anyway). so it's hard to avoid them, and hard to teach children to ignore the dogs. At one point I was telling my DSs to say hello to the dogs but not to approach them, which is fine, but they really really want to touch them. We got to know many owners that way, and we know many of the dogs by their names.

Anyway, all that to say that I am sometimes uncomfortable about going to the park because I feel that a) many dog owners think that it's acceptable to have dogs off their leads, if their dog isn't under control and b) it's acceptable to let them pooh and not clean it up.

People ask me if I'm scared to go in the park on my own with the kids, and I say yes, I'm sometimes scared of the dogs, not of the people!

I haven't read through but I totally agree.

DS1 is only 2.3yo but he is learning to ask first. Last week a man had a go at me for implying his dogs were vicious when I told DS1 to ask first so you can't always win!

I have a dog and my children are used to our dog, mils dog, my best mate dog and a couple of other friends dogs
BUT

they are under no circumstances allowed to ruu/walk up to and touch/pet dogs that we dont know

I have had strange looks from people whilst teaching the little ones about this

scenario goes

dd2(4) and dd3 (2) see ultra cute dog walking on a lead with owner

with a 'oh mummy look, cute doggy' they are running towards it

me: NO, STOP NOW!

they stop

dog owner looks at me as if I am saying his dog is rabid

me to girls: what do we do if we want to stroke someone else dog?

girls: ask first

I catch up with them, we approach owner together and ask permission to stroke dog

owner realises that I am teaching the children to be polite and careful

owner explains dog is gentle, doesn't eat children and would like to be petted

we talk to, pet the dog

as we leave I rienforce that not akll dogs are as nice as ours, that nice dog, mils etc

and that to safe we MUST ask the owner first

also they mustn;t go near dogs tyed outside shops

I would have thought that this is just common sense