To think that banning teachers from being members of the BNP is outrageous!

[londonone]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8112747.stm

Now I abhor the BNP and their policies however they are a LEGAL political party and as a teacher I would find it appalling that my freedom to join legal political parties was being curtailed.

If the establishment believe the BNP to be that abhorrent then they should make them illegal. If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.

If BNP membership is to be banned then what about the SWP, some would say they are as extreme.

"Freedom of speech as long as you say the same as I believe eh? Slippery slope that one."

and this is the problem i have with it. i have always considered myself a liberal until recently. the reason i'm not sure that i would be classed as a liberal any longer is because i believe liberals have become the most right-wing group of any. it seems to be a case of "everyone has the right to their personal beliefs as long as they are the beliefs i deem to be right and safe".
where as my idea of liberalism was always that everyone had the right to their own personal beliefs, no matter how abhorrent to me (racist,sexist,homophobic) as long as they did not interfere with or impose their beliefs on others or break the law.
so if a teacher is a homophobic or racist or sexist person in their private life but can absolutely leave that at the door of their profession then i think it is a very dangerous precedent to ban then from certain professions when they are memebrs of a legal party and have stayed within the codes of conduct for teaching.
in fact all this will do is drive them underground, and if the BNP thinker was in anyway smart (and you'd hope they would be if they were a teacher) and was the type of person who would act prejudicial against non-white kids they're teaching they'd keep their beliefs silent and then subtely prejudice them. give the white kids a better education and start to life while undermining the non-whites education un-noticed.
all it will do is force them underground.

Vinegar - I am not campaigning for anything except the right for people to be free to join any legal political party they wish.

Being a member of a political party does not necessarily affect the way you do your job. I have no idea which of my colleagues are members of political parties as they keep their political views out of school and that is how it should be.

I don't think Muslims hate infidels (well I have my doubts about my mother-in-law ), I'm just saying that there is scriptural justification for it that could be used to put blanket bans on people, regardless of how they behave.

And that would be wrong.

This is a very interesting, well put together thread in my opinion. I am open minded on the whole but would feel uncomfortable knowing that a school teacher is fundenmentally racist especially when teaching children from different cultures, creeds and races.
It could also leave them open to allegations and critism.
I am not saying that they wouldnt be professional but to me it would seem like they were putting on an act and not having certain children's best interests at heart.
Certain jobs do not allow for racism IMO.

Indeed Vinegartits the very act of joining the BNP is a racist act of allegiance and therefore incompatible with being a member of the teaching profession.

In our local area, one of the candidates standing for the BNP was a serving vicar. How can this be acceptable either?

No, I don't, and I speak as a teacher. People who are in a position of power over malleable young minds should be able to accept a wide variety of opinion, origin and beliefs. Holding very arrested views on issues such as race or women will almost certainly prevent people from doing a decent job. Teaching is one of those professions that challenges your views on a daily basis.

I don't think that anybody in regular contact with children should be allowed to belong to an organisation that believes in repatriation of anybody not "native" and limiting women's rights. The same goes for youth workers as far as I'm concerned.

morningpaper - I chose it as an extreme example because we are talking about extremes!

clemette, in somerset, many vicars seem very good at slipping racist views into sermons and conversation

it's all a bit 1950s

clemette and duchess - would you extend the same consideration to people who hold certain religious views?

OP if you abhor the BNP and their policies, then why would you want to campaign for the right to be able to join the BNP? I take your point about freedom of speech but this is the BNP we are talking about

Eh? Freedom of speech is defending people's right to say and believe what they want. Not what you want.

'If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.' in joining the BNP, they would be doing this though, can you not see that?

I don't think the BNP do recruitment events in staffrooms or classrooms.

Well said SomeGuy

duchesse - what about parents?

But being a member of the BNP means you agree with their policies, that being their racist, sexist, homophobic policies, non? therefore that would affect you ablitiy to relate to black, female, gay pupils, no? or would you still treat them the same as white british hetrosexual boys, given your extreme political views and beliefs?

kerrymumbles - good point!

I think this would have been a valid debate but on a more general tone.

If you take the bnp out of the equasion (and let's be honest most of us don't want to be associated with sympathizing with the bnp), there are lots of other organizations and religions etc which hold extreme views.

One of the 7/7 bombers was a teacher. He killed himself and many others in the name of Islam. Now while anyone with any inteligence knows that Islam is not all about extremist views, in reality, we don't know which muslims are extremists and which aren't, so would it not be safer to ban muslims from being teachers? Police officers? working in the public sector?

Many christian religions hold extreme views on issues such as cohabiting, homosexuality, some even believed that the disabled are so because of punishment for theirs or their ancestors' sins. So would it not be better to ban teachers/police officers etc from being christians?

The reality is that in all walks of life there are people with extreme views. And sometimes it's hard to identify who those people are, so we either have to ban all extreme views, and thus potentially freedom of speech, or we have to trust that most people working in the public sector, teachers, police officers, paramedics, doctors etc, are good people who either do not hold such extreme opinions, or who do not let their extreme views prejudice the way in which they do their job.

Vinegartits - And if you don't treat them the same there is ample equal opps legislation to deal with you.

Which religious views? As a non-religious person I can understand that all religion is based on love. Do you mean the political views of SOME members of SOME sects of SOME religions? If so then the question is about ploitics and not religion surely.
My answer stands - if teachers want to publically announce their hate-filled views then they need to be willing to step down from their profession.

wannabe my head agrees with you but I could not let my children be taught by someone who despises their colour.

My guess is that people with extreme religious views teach in faith schools.

clemette - Do you really beleive that there are no offensive religious views? That all offensive views are "political" and not religious?

saadia - Now thats a good argument for getting rid of faith schools!

"'If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.' in joining the BNP, they would be doing this though, can you not see that?"

not if they do it in their own private time surely? how would this be a work related act?
unless of course you consider a roman catholic going to their place of worship to also be an act connected with their professional life.in which case they are supporting an organisation which has advocated violence against other who don't share your beliefs for a lot longer than the BNP have existed (the crusades were fairly brutal), who have still not come out and supported homosexuality,have up until the end of the last century hidden child abuse cases and moved known paedophiles from parish to parish in Ireland without warning any of the future victims parents, and have been involved in thousands of years of oppressing women even making them go through the ritual of "churching" following birth up until recently.

yet for some reason we accept peoples ability to filter out certain parts of their religious beliefs and leave them at the door but not their political.
as i've said all along the BNP are a disgusting party and i'm suprised they are legal, but while they are then it is a hypocritical and dangerous precedent to set where by the government would say "you all have political freedom to join political parties, except this one which we don't like"

Yes. "Offensive" religious views are down to political interpretations of religious teaching. Not party political, but political in terms of power and faction. Do you have a specific example in mind?