To think that banning teachers from being members of the BNP is outrageous!

[londonone]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8112747.stm

Now I abhor the BNP and their policies however they are a LEGAL political party and as a teacher I would find it appalling that my freedom to join legal political parties was being curtailed.

If the establishment believe the BNP to be that abhorrent then they should make them illegal. If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.

If BNP membership is to be banned then what about the SWP, some would say they are as extreme.

Grand, so the plan is that we avoid Fascism using the power of Stalinism?

People who work for The State or are in positions of authority must hold the right opinions.

Genius.

For a country so obsessed with teaching children about the Nazis, the English have a pitiful grasp of the history of the 1930s.

i think it sets a very dangerous precedent about limiting political freedoms.
as others have said hold them up to the exact same code of conduct as other teachers, if they fall short sack them. if they can leave their politics at the door then good on them. what next, socialists or communist teachers banned because they might act prejudicial towards the kid of a millionaire capitalist fat cat? members of the green party probably won't treat the kid being dropped off in a 4x4 as well as the kid who's home-made jam producing earth mother walks him to school. Catholic/muslim/jewish teachers favouring those who have been blessed into their particular faith?

once you let one legitimate legally recognised group be excluded on the basis of their political or religious views you open up the floodgates. once the precedent is set it can be argued that anyone religious or political views prejudice them against treating everyone fairly.

either ban all membership of political parties or none at all.
all this is going to do is add to the BNP's persecution complex that the white man is being persecuted in britain which is how they gain many of their followings. will any american teachers who have gone to college on the back of the UNCF be banned? will any other involved in groups for specific ethnicities be banned or only the BNP?

Has anyone ever checked out "Redwatch"? Or seen themselves or anyone they know on there? Disturbing. And they know it's dodgy because they keep moving the server it is hosted on. Ultimately, though, you have to remind yourself it is the product of people with small penises and too much time on their hands.

Sorry londonone is right - everyone always bleats on about democracy, freedom of speech etc etc then gets enraged when a party like the BNP starts to actually use their democratic right to freedom of speech. Freedom of speech as long as you say the same as I believe eh? Slippery slope that one.

As for banning BNP members from being teachers, there is NO precendent - members of the police force are not allowed to be members of the BNP OR ANY OTHER POLITICAL PARTY.

The choice is to either ban all public sector workers from joining any political party, or the current system which is to allow public sector workers (part from the police - not quite sure why actually if some one could enlighten me) to join any political party they want, and if their political views stop them doing their job atisfactorily then discipline them accordingly.

And I'm a card carrying leftie by the way.

londonone, I am more concerned that you are claiming to be a teacher (in London?) but seem to have an incredible ignorance about muslims that you are happy to drop into 'conversation'

that would worry me more than your political affiliations or lack of them

firepile - As I have not debated with wither you or carpe before and you are not contributing to the debate I am not really interested in your opinion of me! I think you probably can't recognise the difference between defending political freedom and defending extremists.

Bitoffun - I will presume then that you are some sort of newlabour enforcer then!!!!

SomeGuy, you are misunderstanding me. UQD- yes, not a good list to be familiar with. Morningpaper- bravo!

I really am leaving this thread now- not good for the spirit.

I would agree that if a teacher holds any kind of extreme views that contradict the belief that all children are deserving of equal rights then they are in the wrong job and should not be allowed to teach.

There was an interesting case about three or four years ago where a bus driver (in charge of driving vulnerable adults and children to care centres) was revealed to be a BNP member.

he was sacked. He took his case to the court of appeal and it was ruled that his employers WERE entitled to sack him. he had a duty of care to those on his bus and it was ruled that if he belonged to a party that did not like non whites, it was fair to assume that he would not carry out that duty of care to non whites on his bus.

It was a landmark case. therefore BNP supporting teachers would probably lose their jobs.

So...perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad thing if they joined as they could be weeded out.

morningpaper - If you look again you will see that I clarified my rather sloppily worded post. I was referring to some extreme Muslims as an example of extremem political views, I could equally have chosen some Christians views on homosexuality.

If a teacher in mainstream school was found to be part of any other extremist group that advocated violence/intolerance/hatred they would be disciplined. The BNP pretend that they don't; the teaching unions are not fooled.
Am loathe to get into this with you londonone as past experience tells me you ignore the legitimate arguments against the BNP. Your head is in the sand about the danger of this party and I am unsurprised that many MNers believe you are a BNP sympathiser.

bitoffun - someguys assessmenyt of you is accurate.

kingrolo - please can you show me where I have tried to legitimise BNP policies. Of course I don't have to legitimise themn as a party because they are a legitimate party. As I said before, whether they shopuld be or not is a different debate.

YANBU but I can't find it in me to care.

Hmm yes wasn't it ODD thta the first example of 'extreme views' that comes to your mind is "Muslims vs. infidels". Do you know a lot of extreme Islamic teachers? Do they have a little burqa corner in your staffroom?

Sorry but I think your 'slips' reveal more than your arguments.

PS - just tied to check if I was on redwatch but we can't access it in school because the filters have it as hate speech. Damn filters limiting the freedom of speech for our children...

londonone, I am more concerned that you are claiming to be a teacher (in London?) but seem to have an incredible ignorance about muslims that you are happy to drop into 'conversation'

I don't really see your point. And I bet you wouldn't have made it if the example given had been Catholics and homosexuality.

'Kafir'/infidel is an Islamic concept and there are substantial grounds to be intolerant towards non-Muslims in the Qur'an, just as you could doubtless find intolerance towards Muslims on the BNP website.

For instance

" O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. "

But in neither case is it justifiable to judge people on the basis of their personal beliefs rather than their private actions.

In what kind of non-mainstream school is it ok for teachers to be members of violent organizations or groups that advocate violence?

"I could equally have chosen some Christians views on homosexuality."

The fact that you didn't says quite a lot though.

clemette - I have said many many times, whether the BNP should be legal or not is a different debate. I am debating based on the fact they are currently legal.

skidoodle I assume there are none, but didn't want to make a blanket statement about the myriad of private schools that exist.

Kingrolo - It doesn't say anything at all, the fact that you read something into it suggests that you are looking for something that isn't there. It isn't by any means the only example I have used on this thread, but it's the first you have chosen to leap on!

You are not debating. You are not listening. You have your view and are calling those who question it stupid.

OP if you abhor the BNP and their policies, then why would you want to campaign for the right to be able to join the BNP? I take your point about freedom of speech but this is the BNP we are talking about

'If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.' in joining the BNP, they would be doing this though, can you not see that?

londonone, I am more concerned that you are claiming to be a teacher (in London?) but seem to have an incredible ignorance about muslims that you are happy to drop into 'conversation'

Someguy> I don't really see your point. And I bet you wouldn't have made it if the example given had been Catholics and homosexuality.

Um no, that's because we generally understand that the crude stereotype of a Catholic hating homosexuals is a crude stereotype - whereas unfortunately many people (apparently you included) seem to think that Muslims are on some sort of mission against 'the infidel'.

This will go on for hours, but I for one am quite fed up of the preciousness of some people acting as if the BNP are about to storm to power and rechristen the House of Commons "the Reichstag". They are not, they are a very marginal party, and one that, despite the dreadful economy we've got, made virtually no progress in the Euro elections (yes they got two MEPs, thanks to Labour's introduction of Proportional Representation, but that was because of the collapse in Labour's vote) and have very little support in this country.

The provisions to deal with racism are more than adequate already, we have no need for yet another hysterical and ad hoc law that would be impossible to enforce in any case, since the BNP membership list is not published publicly.