To think that banning teachers from being members of the BNP is outrageous!

[londonone]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8112747.stm

Now I abhor the BNP and their policies however they are a LEGAL political party and as a teacher I would find it appalling that my freedom to join legal political parties was being curtailed.

If the establishment believe the BNP to be that abhorrent then they should make them illegal. If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.

If BNP membership is to be banned then what about the SWP, some would say they are as extreme.

Message withdrawn

Incidentally if we're going to get onto the subject of Islam, it's quite clear that certain manifestations of it pose a much greater threat to children's education than the BNP do.

As far as I know, no teacher has been accused of spreading BNP propaganda in lessons. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

On the other hand, look what happened at New Monument School in Woking.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article5941506.ece

"A campaign by two Muslim governors to give Islam a greater presence in a state school played a key part in forcing a successful head from her job, the High Court found yesterday.

Erica Connor, 57, the former head teacher of the New Monument primary school in Woking, Surrey, was forced to leave the school because of stress after she was accused of Islamophobia.

The High Court ruled yesterday that Surrey County Council had failed in its duty to protect her and to intervene when the actions of the governors created problems in the school?s governing body, and awarded her £400,000 damages.

The court was told that over two years, two governors campaigned to make the school more Islamic and that their behaviour had torn apart the school?s governing board. Paul Martin, a Muslim convert, tried to stir up disaffection in the community against the school and Mumtaz Saleem was verbally abusive in school meetings, it was said in court.

Madrassas targeted in faith schools inquiry
Ofsted accused of soft line on Muslims
Although during the first five years that Mrs Connor was in charge of the school there had been good relations with the local Muslim community and improved results, the judge, John Leighton-Williams, QC, said that the situation had changed when the two men were elected as governors in 2003. "

The County Council was found in court to be terrified of the 'Islamophobia' accusations and failed to support the head teacher, who by all accounts was running a very effective teacher.

After she was forced out the school was put on special measures. Unquestionably numerous children's education were badly damaged by the Islamicization of the school.

I have not heard of any school where the BNP have got a similar position of authority.

The head "had [in 2001] been invited to a reception at Downing Street after the school was named the second most improved in the country for SATs results."

2000 report: "New Monument Primary School is a good and effective school.It achieves academic standards that are as good as they should be in relation to the pupils? prior attainment on entry to the school, and, in
the core subjects of English, mathematics and science, they are better. Pupils have positive attitudes about the school and are keen to improve their own performance."

2006 report: "This school requires special measures because it is failing to give its pupils an acceptable standard of education and the persons responsible for leading, managing or governing the school are not demonstrating the capacity to secure the necessary improvement in the school.In Year 6 standards are exceptionally low and pupils of all backgrounds and abilities are not achieving well enough. The overall quality of education provided is inadequate and the school offers unsatisfactory value for money."

The Catholic church teaches that it is a sin to divorce, to co-habit before marriage, to use any form of contraception, to take the morning after pill, to choose to terminate a pregnancy even where there is a risk to the health of the mother, to be a sexually active gay person.

That's not the lunatic fringe. That's mainstream catholic teaching. It is deeply sexist and homphobic and the church runs public campaigns in favour of policies that do real harm to women and seek to discriminate against gay people.

By the standards given to ban bnp membership Catholics should also be banned from education.

The catholic church is a great dal more powerful than the bnp too.

I don't mind having a valid debate with people I know on here or in real life- but this OP seems to be an apologist for a racist party to me. I have namechanged as I don't like to connect my MN persona with my professional one, but I am a teacher, and I and my colleagues worry about the kids we teach, the growth of violence in schools, the endless paperwork and all manner of things- it's a stressful profession. I have never in my life met a teacher who was worried about their right to join the BNP, let alone be worried enough to post on a parenting website. I manage not to mention my professional concerns here and I still find plenty to talk about! If a teacher did have the time or inclination to bring it up like this, I would be rather inclined to believe they were a sympathizer, not one who finds their views "abhorrent", as the OP claimed.

I don't think the 7/7 bomber taught in a faith school. Iirc he taught children with sn, so vulnerable in the extreme.

I wouldn't want my children taught by someone holding the views of the bnp either. But neither would I want them taught by someone who might blow themselves and others up in the name of their religion, or someone who would disagree with them having a blood transfusion in the event of an accident (jw's), etc.

Either we have to ban all extreme politics/religion for public sector workers, or accept that unfortunately some will hold these views. We can't just ban the ones we don't like.

Those who were members of the British Fascist party in the 1930s and 1940s were imprisoned during the war.

Thousands of British men died consciously trying to defeat Fascism in Spain. Are they heroes or suppressors of free speech?
True freedom of speech could never/should never exist in a civilised society. Sad but true.

If a racist teacher was letting their beliefs affect their workn in subtle ways, how would we know? Children need more protection than adults. If an adult is discriminated against by the police/council officials/ their empployer then there are things they can do. A five year old woudn't even know what was happening.

Someguy: I fail to see what this has to do with Islam TBH.

"I have not heard of any school where the BNP have got a similar position of authority."

That's irrelevant. Racism is a massive problem in schools. Miliant Islam is not. Pretty much every child will come across racist views in every school across the country. My 6 year old has already come home asking me what "nigger" means. She goes to a primary school in Somerset.

busby - I can assure you I do find the BNPs views abhorrent. However I also find it deeply worrying that the government is trying to restrict the freedom of teachers to exercise their political freedom. The fact it is the BNP is by the by IMO. It is the point of principle.

"But being a member of the BNP means you agree with their policies, that being their racist, sexist, homophobic policies, non?"

but surely you could then say the exact same about all religions. using the examples of roman catholics again (i'm not picking on you,just having been one for years it's the one i have most knowledge of) in theory if you belong to a religion you agree with and believe in all it's pillars and policies, in theory anyway and it's beyond me why anyone would belong to a religion if they didn't agree with it's teachings.
so in that respect a teachers membership of the roman catholic community would be eveident of homophobic beliefs "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
or their inherent sexism as they are a member of a group which advocated the churching of women following birth.
so the exact same argument could be now levelled against roman catholics to stop them from being teachers i.e.
"But being a member of the BNP means you agree with their policies, that being their racist, sexist, homophobic policies, non"
replace the BNP with the catholic church and take out the word racist and you can level the exact same point against a whole religion.

SomeGuy I don't really understand your point. Are you saying that the BNP and the Islamic faith are equally dangerous/currupt/illiberal?

Would it not be sensible, in a school where the majority of students were Muslims, to have Islam play a prominent role? Most confused...

clemette - If that's what you think then surely organised religion needs to be treated in the same way as political parties?

Busby - I only brought it up as I saw it on the BBC website today and thought it might make a good MN debate!!! It's certainly not something that is on my mind any other time. Off work with a bad back, so perhaps too much time on my hands!

I really don't understand why some people have brought Islam into this.

The BNP is a political party with views about how the country should be run. Anyone who joins supports these very specific views.

Islam is a worldwide religion with a thousand shades of opinion and belief. You cannot pin down what every single Muslim believes.

if it's a faith school yes, if it's a state school hell no. why should any students religion (christian,jewish,muslim) be given a more prominent role on the basis of numbers when it's just down to pot luck (catchment areas etc) on the make up of a particular school.so then the other students would feel marginalised and have their position as a minority highlighted?

So if the majority of children were the offspring of bnp members then it would be ok if the school took on more if a racist ethos?

That's horseshit, MayorQuimby, and you must know it! The Catholic church, for it's members, is about getting to heaven etc, usually conveniently ignoring alll sorts of "teachings" along the way (most use contraception in this country, for example), whereas joining a political party you don't actually agree with would be a bit pointless because their policies are why you sign up!

God, somebody stop me checking this thread, aaaaaargh!

Thankyou mayorquimby and skidoodle!

londonone Factions of organised religion yes - if a Catholic joined a pro-life Catholic organisation that advocated using terror tactics against abortion clinics/women then they should not be teachers.

We have a teacher in school who is against sex before marriage, gay marriage and abortion. She is considering her position...

Can people please stop beating up on londonone?! She has a very valid point!!

The BNP is a legitimate political party, albeit one with abhorrent views. If the government seeks to ban teachers being members of a legitimate party, then they ought to ban membership of ALL political parties.

In fact, why stop there?

Let's ban membership of the Catholic Church on account of their views on homosexuality. [Yes, the Catholic Church has an official stance on this, whether Catholics like to admit it or not!]

Let's ban membership/affiliation to Islam for the same reason.

Oh, and what about the Green Party? Extremists, the lot of them. We have a right to pollute our world to the supposed benefit of mankind, albeit short-term.

Socialist parties? Definitely, given their views on basic capitalism, a principle most countries in the world seem to function on.

Hey, what about the Conservative Party? I mean, they are hardly representative of society given the lack of women within their senior ranks - by their very existence, sexism seems to be the order of the day.

Oh, I suppose we could say the same about the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats!

What about Jehovah's Witnesses? After all, their extreme views on the acceptance of certain forms of medical treatment is hardly in line with most of society's.

And let's not forget UKIP. Their wish for Britain not to be members of the EU smacks of isolationism which is not acceptable in the global world in which we now live.

Wait, what about the Buddhists? After all, the right to self-defence, violent and non-violent, is enshrined in our law. We couldn't have people disagreeing with that, could we?

Oh, and how could I leave out membership of any recognised Trade Union? The disruption they cause to companies, both public and private, is completely unacceptable, given how they can bring certain areas of industry to a standstill to the detriment of society.

Yes, the list goes on and on and on and on and on. Slippery slope and all that.

londonone please ignore the narrow-mindedness of the people on here. After all, it would seem that trying to engage healthy debate automatically classes you as a BNP sympathiser or a closet BNP member. I wouldn't rise to the obvious stupidity and undeserved self-righteousness displayed by those who hold such views. IMO, they're just as bad as the very BNP members they abhor.

Bitoffun - You sign up to religion as much as you sign up to a political party!

mayorquimby perhaps we should then abolish the requirement for a daily act of Christian worship at primary schools. Most schools don't do it but it is still statute.

Someguy: I fail to see what this has to do with Islam TBH.

Eh?

Senior figures from the mosque (who had no children at the school) tried to take the school over. They were supported in this by the County Council, who were terrified of accusations of being Islamophobic.

Those senior figures from the mosque wanted to institute Islamic worship in school and to link the school to the mosque. The court ruled that they had an agenda to "convert New Monument to an Islamic faith school"

They circulated a petition accusing the (very successful) head teacher of being a racist Jew (she had some Jewish ancestry apparently - anti-semitism is, sadly, propagated by some Muslims) who transferred resources from Muslims to white pupils, and the County Council did nothing except kowtow to the demands of the infiltrators. Teachers were issued with attack alarms because of the campaign of intimidation.

Eventually it cost Surrey tax payers over a million pounds in damages and legal fees. Not to mention the damage to children's education.

Ironically the mosque in question (Britain's first) was originally built by a German Jew who planned to build a synagogue, temple and church on the same site.

You've not met many Catholics then

Haven't seen you for a while Asana- how's things?