To think that banning teachers from being members of the BNP is outrageous!

[londonone]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8112747.stm

Now I abhor the BNP and their policies however they are a LEGAL political party and as a teacher I would find it appalling that my freedom to join legal political parties was being curtailed.

If the establishment believe the BNP to be that abhorrent then they should make them illegal. If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.

If BNP membership is to be banned then what about the SWP, some would say they are as extreme.

saadia - How is it different to being an active member of a faith with the views I stated?

hmm, interesting discussion....tbh,I think it would be dangerous to ban teachers, etc...frm joining any political party, whilst it is a legal party....as long as they do their job well and within the proffessional code of conduct....it should not matter....

of course if a teacher for example, act inappropriately towards their students, etc....that would have to be dealt with....

in the end we all hold our views, but we also have certain codes of conducts to obey too, depending on our profession, and as long as we do that we should be treating the people we are working with as equals....

if a person can't do that, than they are in the wrong career...

LO do you mean Buddhisma nd Hinduism?

technically te original faith doresn't (I ahve to run out in a mo but there's threads on this on here and I did a lot on it for mey RE degree) although absolutely that has beocme absorbed into the faith- it's not the 'original' faith though.

The 'proper' karma theory states we all need to go through erpsiods of baalnce- so times of independence, dependence, etc- to achieve that all baalncing equilibrium. karma isn't supposed to be the punishment people see it as, but rather an inanimate force if you like.

Does that make sense?

Village tradition has of course evolved outside the main teaching to absorb other interpretations and that's where you get things like this, but the Brahmanical tradition works the way I (probably badly) explained

Yes I do peachy, I am sure not all followers of the faiths believe that at all but I am certainly aware that some do as I have taught children who have been taught these views at home by their parents as part of their religious beliefs.

How could someone who is a member of the BNP teach my children in a fair and balanced way?

People who have taken the time, effort and money to JOIN the BNP hate black people. They think they are subhuman and worthless.

So they think my kids are subhuman and worthless, sexually devient and destined to commit crimes against innocent white people.

So a member of the BNP should be allowed to teach my kids? Fuck off.

The BNP get away with fecking murder. They do not allow non whites to join their party because they are non white. Last I knew this sort of thing breached equality laws. They have been doing it for years and getting away with it.

Inciting violence is also against the law but they get away with it.

Holocuast denial is illegal in some countries (although I dont think it is here).

I have said it before but its important to me, its easy to be liberal about the BNP's rights to free speech etc if they dont want to beat up YOUR kids.

The give em enough rope argument? Sorry but its not them getting lynched that worries me.

Some people negate their democratic rights, paedophiles and the BNP spring to mind.

Wankers.

londononre absolutely soem do folow that, but its incorrect interpretation of faith iykwim

as so many unfair beleifs are sadly- very damagiong that can be too

I agree chegirl, I think those of us who are at the receiving end of BNP vitriol have a better understanding of the issue.

BTW rather than banning teachrs would quite like them to publish register sio I could remove kids instead

Course wouldnt work as you'd just get teachers and likeminded bigots reflecting views

nice thouht tho

I sincerely hope that people who are critical of the education system as it is at the moment, including inclusion policies, are not considered to be incompatible with teaching by anyone in a position to make a decision on the matter.

I find the implication that to be a teacher you have to buy wholeheartedly into the current government's political ideas around education pretty disturbing.

Smart, independent thinkers of whatever political persuasion rather than line-toeing drones please.

chegirl - Surely you should be campaigning for them to be illegal then.

saadia - In what way do you have a better understanding of whether teachers hsould be allowed freedom of political expression outside the workplace? You may well have a better understanding of the problems the BNP cause but that is not what this particular debate is about.

chegirl -

"How could someone who is a member of the BNP teach my children in a fair and balanced way?"

For all you know they are at the moment. If they failed to teach your child in a fair and balanced way they would be kicked out of the profession pronto, there is plenty of legislation and provision for that. The point here is that if they are as capable as Tories, Communists, Catholics and Others of leaving their views outside the classroom then what business is it of yours. Teachers like and dislike different children and families for all sorts of reasons but the professional ones do not let thios affect how the children are treated.

can op explain to me how the SWP is at all similar to the BNP?
(apols if this has already been covered!)

Sorry CarpePerDiems, had to go do tea and put DS2 to bed!

My feeling was that the questioning of londonone about whether she was a BNP member was a bit like the shouts of troll on other threads - not adding anything to the debate and in fact actively distracting from it. She isn't arguing that she wants to join the BNP, but more about freedom of political views among the teaching profession.

Also, I didn't see anything that she posted that made her sound like she agreed with BNP views, so it seemed a bit odd.

HH: Well, when I was younger, the SWP were every bit as happy to use violence and intimidation against people they had decided were the enemy as the BNP are.
There has always been an element of thuggishness in both far-right and far left parties, when you get young-ish men who are delighted to have some sort of 'political' justification for kicking heads in: whether they end up in the BNP or the SWP depends mostly on which lot get to them first.

To my mind, there are two separate issues here:

• should the BNP be allowed to be a legal political party?

and

• should teachers be allowed to join political parties, or be like the police, and refrain from expressing any political views at all?

My feeling is that if teachers can leave their politics at the door of the classroom, then their political affiliations are neither here nor there.

However, I would be uncomfortable about a BNP member teaching my child, because I believe that the policies they espouse are essentially driven by racism and misogyny.

But instead of curtailing teachers' human rights, I'd rather curtail the BNP's right to be a political party.

IYSWIM.

When I was a member of the SWP, which I was for many years, the only people I ever kicked were the BNP, and only then when they started it. I have never witnessed any violence by any SWP member other than in self defence.

I also think that comparing the SWP to the BNP is pretty offensive.

Other people might see it the other way Jopie.

HH - SGB said it better than me, I was just think of another extreme party.

I personally find the views of the SWP fairly offensive JoPie but I accept that a minority of people including you hold those views and are free to do so.

i think there is a difference between "extreme" and "racist." What you judge as Extreme is subjective. Racism is not.

I think you are naive in the extreme if you think that HH, I have heard the Tories, UKIP and the BNP all described as racist. The BNP describe the BPOA as racist. Racism can be as subjective as people choose to make it.

Of course I think the BNP should be illegal.

A member of the BNP has choosen to join a party whose reason for being is to persecute, attack and otherwise harrass non whites.

It is NOT like the Catholic church or the Tories (much as I dislike the party) or any other mainstream party. If a teacher was actively involved in a party or group that believed white people were devils (the Nation of Islam for eg) or was a member of a group that thought all women should be at home and ever available for sex (oops there goes the BNP again) I would not be happy that they taught my children either.

There is a difference between a teacher taking a dislike to a child who happens to be black and a teacher who dislikes a child because they are black.

To those who take the pragmatic line - would you be happy if your child was being taught/cared for/ influenced by a teacher who 1. thought disabled children should not be allowed to live, girls should be kept at home and not educated, boys were intellectually inferior to girls and were all destined to be rapists?

Of course non members of the BNP can be racist and how can we do anything about that if they dont proclaim their views? But someone who has made the MASSIVE statement of joining the BNP is shouting their views from the rooftops.

We cannot stop paedophiles teaching our children if they keep it under wraps but if they join the Fuck Children Daily Party we what should we do? Give them their right to free speech and expression?

But the BNP deliberately tries to obscure their racism in order to attract supporters. I imagine a lot of misguided people who don't think of themselves as racists voted for them in the last elections because of their more socialist policies (National Socialists remember).

That's why it's so funny to hear them moaning about the poor education system - if it were better they'd have a harder time recruiting members.

I think it is also not entirely true to say that racism can be objectively determined. Some people think it is racist to oppose immigration, others think it is racist to criticize the cultural or religious beliefs of people from other places. Others do not. I've seen someone accused of being racist for wearing black clothes during set changes on stage, which is pretty standard practise in many theatres.

I think it is true to say that the bnp is a racist party though.

Really it is pretty insulting to compare the SWP who were instrumental in initiating the Anti-Nazi League, who were founded by a Palestinian Jew, and who have actively argued an anti-racist stance since coming about to the BNP who are a fascist party - it's very convenient to start talking about all parties being the same but it seems to me its just a cover for not taking any action against nazis.

Agree with JoPie - have never witnessed violence by the SWP except in self-defence and usually against the bloody nazis -- and FACT - when the BNP opened their disgusting racist 'bookshop' in London racist attacks went up by 4000% - presumably people have not forgotten the death of Stephen Lawrence?

well given that most schools want the SL award as a mark of anti-racism it would seem bizarre not to ban BNP teachers!

In my view the BNP shoudl be illegal.

Further, a member of the BNP should NOT be allowed anywhere near my child or children generally. It pains me that they are able to influence their own children with their disgusting views.

And frankly, I dont give a fuck about curtailing the human rights of someone stupid and evil enough to join teh BNP.