To think that banning teachers from being members of the BNP is outrageous!

[londonone]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8112747.stm

Now I abhor the BNP and their policies however they are a LEGAL political party and as a teacher I would find it appalling that my freedom to join legal political parties was being curtailed.

If the establishment believe the BNP to be that abhorrent then they should make them illegal. If a teacher acts in a racist, sexist, homophobic way AT WORK, then discipline them on that basis.

If BNP membership is to be banned then what about the SWP, some would say they are as extreme.

WFHIT, the BNP don't actually mind menacing families and go to quite some lengths to get their details to do so- although sometimes they might get it wrong. Some of us have profiles here and are traceable from what we've posted in the past. Speaking as someone whose partner was threatened with knifing in front of my children at the doorstep by BNP goons, I am not quite so blase about it all.

You dont have to be a paid up,card carrying member of a political party to agree with their views and to vote for them.If teachers were banned from bnp membership it wouldnt prevent their supporting them.The problem is our tolerance of them at all.I am all for free speech but thats not the same as condoning the existence of an accepted political party with horrible,inhumane attitudes and presenting it as an option at the ballot box.I too was a teacher until retirement.Racism is never acceptable and for a teacher to hold such views is,or ought to be,the antithesis of what the profession stands for.

But my point is you cannot control who is on MN and what they think, as long as they stick to the rules then it's impossible and not part of MN's ethos.

If you want security from any association with people with different beliefs to you, then you should join a closed forum.

You know, some members of the BNP are probably mothers too - should they not be allowed on here to ask advice about PND or breastfeeding in case their views make people uncomfortable?

I'm sure there are people on here who disagree with me, possibly violently, on many topics, or would hate me because of the colour of my skin or my background, if they knew what it was (the beauty of an anonymous forum! ). I respect their right to hold opinions. If they turn up on my doorstep, invade my privacy, threaten me, harm me, then I call the police.

But I can't have them banned for thinking something. And posting info about yourself is entirely up to you.

And while the BNP is a legal political party, then you can't ban people from joining it.

However, you can campaign to have the party itself banned if it supports or takes part in illegal activities.

I think that's naive, tbh, and why should I be the one to have to stay off MN?

IMO, what's naive is thinking that there aren't already people on MN who are racist, or BNP supporters, or even Tories

BoF: why should you have to stay off MN because someone else holds views you don't like? If a poster is actually threatening or stalking you, then you report it to MNHQ and the police if necessary, but you are surely not advocating that MN ban people from posting if they appear to or if indeed they do support the BNP? There have been threads from posters saying they contemplated voting BNP in the past, they good a kicking lively debate on the subject but I don't think anyone advocated banning them from MN because of their political views.
And I wouldn't fancy being on an internet forum where people got banned for holding unacceptable views. If BNP-supporting MNers started saying 'Darkies Go Home' or calling other posters abusive names etc then that would be a matter for a warning/ban but we do have to allow people to hold opinions we don;t share and express them up until the point when they break the law.

WFHIT BNP memebers are allowed on here

We challenge them regularly, they usually hide behind false names

you say free speech- well my free speech turns to those who agree with the BNP ethos and say 'you are ofensive and your bile makes me weep'

Should we leave them alone? God, no. Why should their free speech deny us ours? Why should we give up the fight to show the BNP as what it is?

'If you want security from any association with people with different beliefs to you, then you should join a closed forum.'-

I just get antsy if I think I see evidence of them atempting to organise on here, and it is the kind of thing their new media strategy lends itself to. I don't think that random raciosts are out to get me or anyone else on here, but if they send their members on to try and cultivate friends here, I wouldn't put it past them to use personal info they can find to intimidate people- they've done it loads of times.

BoF well if they do that, report them, call the police etc. But I don't think it's a bad thing for BNP members to post on MN as what happens is they get taken apart by other people - not just the ones who scream and rant at them, but the ones who calmly dissect their witless arguments and clearly point out the flaws in the whole BNP ideology. Open debate remains the only way to deal with people who have ignorant or unpleasant views, trying to shut them up is invariably counterproductive.

I haven't screamed or ranted that I recall? I don't mean to give that impression.

The trouble with not just squashing them though (and this is the old No Platform For Nazis argument) is that they pick up a lot of soft racists along the way and get bigger, scarier and richer. If you can pop up every time they do and argue them out of the water, great.

On the practical side of keeping safe, unfortunately the police don't have a brilliant history of defending trade unionists or lefties (or non-whites come to that, although that is outside of my personal experience) so they're often not an option.

Peachy I wasn't suggesting we stop disagreeing with them, or challenging them, far from it. As SGB says, debate is the`way to deal with these views.

Just wondering what the purpose of questioning people like the OP about their political views was, and challenging the idea that being a BNP member excluded one from MN>

As`for hiding behind false names, LOL! Don't we all do that on here?

Actually I dont WFH LOL, as is well recorded Peach is indeed my real name

But yes I get wjhat you mean- but I meant namechanging from usual MN names: to me that suggest a level of shame

I sahre the feeling though that certain threads have been srated by hopeful BNP members in the apst not necessarily routine MN members

Londonone's politics are fairly widely available on MN, but when someone is making a a point it's probably wise to look for the motivation IME.

What's wrong with questioning people on their political views when they post on a political topic?

BOF has said that knowing there were BNP supporters posting would make her uncomfortable, again that's not an unreasonable position.

Sorry, WFHIT, you asked what the purpose of questioning it was, just to get some clarity. My reading of these posts was that the OP seemed to chime in in support of the BNP while claiming to abhor their policies. It felt odd, so I asked if she is a member and explained why.

I have not read all the thread (will post and read in a min) so I may be echoing a load of posts.

IMO teachers should not allowed to be members of BNP. I think that actively joining up to the BNP makes a statement, and is different to support through voting. Its that extra step that confirms that rather than being disillusioned with the existing main parties and looking for a change, you actively agree with their standing, the majority of which is racist.

I would be upset if a teacher responsible for guiding my child was a member of the BNP, I think that teachers need to be respected (and I certainly wouldn't respect a BNP member) and remember that their teachings are guiding our children, and therefore (imo) should be as impartial as possible.

I don't see how teling a racist twnt of a teacher that they can't be in the BNP would stop them being any less of a racist twunt. So not sure how effective it would be. I do wish BNP was made illegal though.

As a m/w I'm not allowed to do anything that would bring the profession into disrespect (or similar wording). So apparantly if I was drunk in town one night and someone complained the RCM could strike me off if they wanted to. The wording is nice and non-specific so they can interpret it how they choose. So I'm probably not allowed to join the BNP, not that I'd want to.

Stayfrosty - I don't have an aversion to swearing I have an aversion to people swearing in place of a reasoned debate. I swore at you because you said or implied that I was a BNP voter, much like some on this thread have done. The reason for doing this I assume is to discredit me in some way rather than actually argue the point (whatever it may be).

My issue with swearing and ranting is I think it is a fruitless exercise when the BNPs policies are sooooooooo easy to dismantle.

I have been really disappointed with the fact that some MNetters seem wholly unable to have a debate about political freedoms without assuming there is some weird underlying propoganda.

I joined MN for a couple of reasons one because I am about to start TTC and secondly because I thought it was a place where one could indulge in robust debate. I am a teacher and as such tend to post on education threads, however I also post on whatever else takes my fancy! Prior to MN I used to post on a teaching website and enjoyed debate there. Perhaps I should have posted this on "In the news" but I guess I prefer the cut and thrust of AIBU. I have indeed posted on a few BNP threads after all there have been a lot around recently. It's something I feel quite strongly about in terms of freedom of expression. That some people choose to interpret that as a pro BNP stance is unfortunate. I am not and never have been pro BNP in any way as I said right at the beginning I abhor their raison d'etre however I think it is far more effective to take them apart logically rather than dismiss them as thugs. I have strong views on all sorts of things from nurseries to global warming and all sorts in between I don't expect people to always agree with me and accept that my views may be very different to the views of others however I tend to stand by my views and am not ashamed of them. So please can I say once more I do not support in any way the policies of the BNP. In many ways I feel they should be made illegal but at the moment they are not and that is the context in which I post.

I was on the thread where londonone took offence at being accused of being a BNP supporter, and whilst I disagreed with aspects of what she had to say on that thread, I do not believe that what she has posted there or here equate to her sypathising with their views at all.

There is a very, very clear difference between defending the equal and legal rights of all people to hold whatever beliefs they wish, and sympathising with those beliefs. I am honestly surprised that some people cannot make that distinction. We live, thank God, in a democracy.

Either you believe we should all have equal rights or

you believe that certain groups (the ones you personally find abhorrent) should have their rights curtailed.

The BNP fall into the second category. As do some posters on this thread.

It shouldn't be necessary to state one's credentials to avoid mudslinging, but I feel compelled to do so to avoid any doubt. I abhor and detest the BNP and everything they stand for. If they gained enough power - which they won't - my family would certainly be 'repatriated' although to who knows where given our multi-cultural background. I voted and encouraged others to vote to avoid them gaining a seat. I am hugely saddened that they got their two seats.

BUT, I am worried by the trend of opinion of "I don't care about their rights, if I had my way they should be treated differently". It is scarily exactly how the BNP feel too.

I think efforts should be directed into campaigning for the party to be illegal.

Where I work, we're credit checked to make sure we're not on the brink of financial ruin

London, iunless I am wriong you're a tory aren't You? I seem to remember you ebing active on Tory threads?

Just stated that A) to prove that you're not just BNP thread absed; and B) to show I wasnt implying BNP memenbership when Is ais politics were well noted

The more I think about it, the more I feel that it is an utterly untenable position for a BNP member to work as a teacher. They would simply not be fit for purpose in the education system as it is.

Leaving aside the teaching of ethnic minorities, don't they also hold quite horrific views about people with disabilities, and how would this tie in with inclusion policies?

Thanks Peachy! Not actually a paid up member of any party but at the moment the tories are most likely to get my x in the box. Thoug given their rubbish education policy I am not sure, I think abstention is the way forward at the moment

saadia - some religions believe that disabilities are a punishment for misdeeds in a past life, should all people of these faiths also be banned from teaching?

oh FGS this is not a debate about religious beliefs. If someone admits to those beliefs and actively signs up for them they should not be teaching.