To be fecked off with the supermarket checkout woman

[Remotew]

We were in a well known supermarket. I bought the weekly shop and DD (15) was trying to buy 2 DVD's on her own cash card one was a cert 15. DD was 15 a month ago so was excited to be buying a 15 DVD with her own cash card but the check out woman asked her for ID!!!

At 15 she hasn't thought about getting ID. I was packing my shopping, £40 worth I should add, and minding my own business then saw DD produce a European Health Ins card with her name and dob on it but this flipping woman (she was an aussie juding by her accent) said she needed photo ID. I then intervened and said I was her mum she is 15 and this is ridiculous. I will pay for the DVD and she tried to tell me she was breaking the law by selling it to me.

She did let me buy it on my card, if not I would have kicked up a stink and she knew it. AIBU to be fecked off. The shape of things to come!! This should be stopped now.

Night HBLB.

So being scared of the secret shopper means that shop assistants can make legal customers feel like criminals, oh that's OK then.

Just to remind posters that DD was over 15 and I was her mum, I can remember giving birth to her, and have never been in trouble with the law before.

We don't look dodgy IMHO but just didn't happen to have our passports with us.

this is not a sneaky way to introduce id cards. i worked for sainsburys 17 years ago and the rules were the same then, if in doubt you asked for id. at the time they didnt sell dvds so it was more drink/cigarettes but it was drummed in to you that if you didnt ask and got caught you would be in serious trouble. with relation to selling alcohol to an under age person the fine used to be £2000 for the company and £2000 for the person that sold it, with the chance that the company would loose their alcohol licence. when you consider how severe the punishments can be its no suprise people are more and more careful about asking for id.

OK Stewie the shop assistant did tell us that her DD had a proof of age card.

As I said DD is getting one now after this but they are not compulsory and this shouldn't have happened today. My word should have been good enough. I'm still annoyed and nothing on this thread has made me feel that IABU.

If it's the law that we all carry them,then fine,I will abide by it but it isn't yet.

Help I don't want to vote tory.

Further erosion of our civil liberty
You guys are blind to not see it
'Protecting us'
Yeah right

why should she take the word of a stranger over the prospect of loosing her job. i think you are being quite selfish in not seeing the repercussions it could have for the member of staff.

I didn't take it out on her. I walked away then let off steam on here.

The shop assistant had no idea that I wasn't a criminal but how about being innocent until proven guilty, instead of being assumed guilty before proven innocent, all played out in front of a check out queue.

Think I will go to bed now as very few people on here have given a decent argument. My DD was buying a DVD for which she was legally entitled to buy, in front of her mum, without her passport and most have likened it to an underage child buying a bottle if vodka and smashing up the neigbourhood.

I agree with you AboutEve
Where has it all gone wrong?

DarellRivers thanks, sleep tight everyone.

Haven't read the entire thread but as a checkout operator myself I have to say YABU to be so annoyed, she was just doing her job. I really dislike IDing people, especially since we now have to ID anyone who looks under 25, but it is important to get it right with each sale as selling to even one underage person could result in a huge fine and even the loss of my job. Selling to an adult you think may be supplying a youngster carries the same penalties as selling direct to a youngster. We have to be so careful and get a lot of abuse for it.

How would you feel if your DD was underage and bought something unsuitable without being asked for ID? I suspect you'd be posting on here about it.

Thanks for all your replies. I've slept on it now and digested the opinions.

What is happening is that our 15 to 18 year olds are legally entitled to buy age restricted products when they reach an age e.g DVD's, alcohol but only if they carry ID.

I didn't realise that those citizen cards are almost compulsory, thought they were for 18 year olds.

The think 25 policy will also make it almost compulsory for anyone under 30 to carry photo ID too or be refused a pkt of cigs/can of beer.

DD mentioned today that she wished she had an older sister as the ones that have use their older sister/brothers ID's to get served.

She will be going to the post office soon to get her card.

If they checkout lady was rude about it then, yes, you are right to be annoyed.

Otherwise, the checkout lady was simply doing her job and as a parent I am thankful for that.

I think you and your daughter should fully expect to produce ID whenever she is purchasing something with an age restriction. I think somebody recommended getting a PASS card, and I would second that.

Sorry, only just read your most recent post abouteve!

On a side note I got asked for ID in the supermarket about 3 years ago (32-33 at the time and looked at least late twenties). I couldn't believe it! (I was quite pleased though!).

YABU - the law states that she can not sell an item to somone under age and they have a right to ask for ID. Does your daughter use public transport? Does she have a pass for this? theya re usually photocards. Otherwise get her an id card - she will need it for cinemas etc.

it is a pain and i understand your frsutration but the check out lady was in the right.

She uses public transport, goes to the cinema, recently to see 15's, again has never been asked.

I was annoyed because I was with her and told that my word wasn't good enough. The checkout assistant firstly asked what her dob was then asked for ID? Why not ask for ID in the first place. DD did have a card with her name and dob which was unacceptable without a photo. She said you could be anybody and that could be fake.

It was only then that I intervened, it was obvious that I was her mum as she was helping with the packing. I'm not kidding myself I could have mistaken as her elder sister.

It's a shame that things are going this way. Flattering though it is to be ID'd at 30, refusal to be served not so nice.

"I was annoyed because I was with her and told that my word wasn't good enough."

Unfortunately your word is not good enough in this situation, I myself have refused sales to parents who offered to buy their children's age restricted goods when they had no ID. I could be prosecuted for that in the same way as selling direct to the youngster. Not a risk I can afford to take unfortunately.

"it was obvious that I was her mum as she was helping with the packing"

No, it was obvious that she was helping you pack. Probably as a thank you for pretending to be her mother so she could buy a 15 film when she was only 14 next month.

Soupdragon, she is already 15 and I wasn't pretending to be her mum.

Perhaps I should have shown her my mobile photos of the two of us. She still wouldn't have sold the damn thing to her.

Unless she was exiting your womb at the time I don't think it'd have been all that obvious that you were her mother.

Not read all of this but this is taken from a local council website and clearly lays out the legal side of age restricted sales.

Age Restricted Sales
It is illegal to sell certain products below specified age limits. The majority of age restricted product legislation is enforced by the Police or Trading Standards. There are harsh financial and custodial penalties which can be applied for not complying with such laws, most of which are "strict liability" meaning that there is no requirement to show "guilty knowledge" in order to prove an offence has been committed.

The Core age restricted products are listed below:
Age 12, 15, 18

Video Recordings and DVD's
Age 16 and Over

• Liquor Chocolates
• Lottery Tickets and Scratchcards
• Party Poppers and Caps
• Petrol

Age 17 and over

• Crossbows

Age 18 and over

• Alcohol
• Butane Gas Lighter Fuel
• Cigarettes and Tobacco
• Fireworks (excluding Party Poppers)
• Intoxicating Substances (Solvents)
• Offensive Weapons (including Knives)

(Both the Manager / Owner of the business and the employee (s), who sells an age-restricted product (s), may be liable to prosecution for an illegal sale).
Alcohol

It is an offence to sell or knowingly allow the sale of intoxicating liquor to a person under the age of 18. This is a joint enforcement function of Trading Standards and the Police. Currently Trading Standards enforce sales of alcohol from off-licenses.
Butane Gas Lighter Fuel
It is an offence to sell any cigarette lighter refill canister containing butane or a substance with butane as a constituent part, to a person under the age of 18.

The Cigarette Lighter Refill (Safety) Regulations 1999

Consumer Protection Act 1987
Volatile Substances

It is an offence for a retailer to supply any volatile substance (glue, solvents, aerosols etc) to a person under 18 years of age if it is known that, or there is reasonable cause to believe that, it is likely to be abused by that person.

Intoxicating Substances (Supply) Act 1985
Fireworks
It is an offence to sell fireworks to anyone under the age of 18. Party Poppers and fireworks designed for indoor use must not be sold to anyone under the age of 16.
Cigarettes and Tobacco Products:

It is an offence to sell Tobacco products (including snuff, tobacco substitutes, pipes and cigarette papers) to anyone under the age of 18. It is also an offence to sell loose cigarettes to adults or children and to sell pre-packed cigarettes in quantities of less than ten. In addition retailers selling cigarettes and tobacco products must display, in close proximity to the cigarette sale area, a notice (A3 size) stating "It is illegal to sell tobacco products to anyone under the age of 18." (The wording must occupy at least 30% of the notice area).

Children and Young Persons (Protection from Tobacco) Act 1991

Children's Act 1933
Lottery Sales inc. scratch cards, spot the ball, and football pools
Should not be sold to under 16's.
Video Recordings
It is an offence to supply a video recording to a person who has not reached the specified age applicable to the video.

Video Recordings Act 1984
At all times remember

• An offence may be committed by the seller (employer) and the business owner)
• Different products have different age restrictions
• Do challenge the age of every young person
• Do demand proof of age: No Card - No Sale
• Do not rely on looks alone
• Do exercise your right not to sell
• If in any doubt do not sell
• Do introduce a due diligence procedure
• Seek advice if in doubt about any aspect of the law or these guidance notes

Note: only the courses can interpret statutory legislation with any authority. The advice in this site is based on information to hand and is subject to revision in the light of further information. The advice is not intended to be a definitive guide to, or a substitute for, the relevant law. Independent legal advice should be sought where appropriate.
Due diligence defence

Whilst it will always be the duty of the seller to ensure age-restricted products are sold legally, UK legislation provides defence provisions for strict liability offences. These provisions recognise that in some cases traders will do all they reasonably can to comply with the law yet still commit the offence. To prove a defence a trader must show that they:

Took all reasonable steps AND exercised all due diligence to avoid the commission of the offence.

The following guidance provides advice on the steps traders should take when implementing procedures which may enable them to claim a due diligence defence. Depending on the size of your business you may decide to adopt some, all or none of these precautions; however case law has indicated that it is very rarely a defence to do nothing. Should you need further advice on what be considered reasonable for your individual business this may be obtained by contacting the Department.

Note: From 1st December 2001 Licensing law states that a defence may only be made out where a person takes all reasonable steps to establish another persons age adding that "a person shall be treated as having taken all reasonable steps to establish another persons age if he asks the other person for evidence of his age" (see proof of age below).
Age Restricted Sales - Model Due Diligence Defence
Implement a Company Policy

This could detail to whom and in what circumstances a customer will/will not be served (eg only on production of proof of age).
Adopt written procedures

These may be detailed or brief but should be brought to the attention of all employees dealing with age-restricted product sales (eg before selling to a person suspected of being under age refer to other / senior staff for advice).
Staff Training

You have a responsibility to ensure your employees are fully aware of the legal requirements relating to age-restricted sales. Training should be documented and must cover the following points:

1. Knowledge of the law

1. Awareness of the company policies and procedures

1. Guidance on how to assess age

1. Advice on handling refusals

Training must be given to all new starters and refreshers given to all staff on a periodic basis. Any changes to legislation/new developments in combating sales (eg introduction of proof of age schemes) must also be covered. As part of your procedures you should ensure that employees sign a declaration sheet that they have received training and understood the legal requirements imposed upon them and your business.
Notices

Statutory notices must always be displayed prominently. Additional notices may also be displayed to deter potential underage purchasers and to act as a reminder to employees.
Refusals Log

This enables a trader to demonstrate to an enforcement body that refusals do occur. It is also enables an owner/manager to monitor refusals by individual employees. A history of refusals acts as evidence that the business is attempting to comply with the law and all employees are actively considering it's requirements whenever a sale is attempted.
Over Stickering / Till Prompts

Both identify to employees that the product is age-restricted and enable them to positively consider their response to the attempted purchase.
Staff Audits

Dependent on the size of the organisation employees should be audited in some manner to ensure continued compliance with the legislation. This may be simply by observation or asking relevant questions to ensure continued understanding. In larger companies audits may include conducting your own test purchase exercises.
Proof of age

There is currently (December 2001) no National Proof of Age Card in existence. However there are a number of Nationally recognised cards including the Citizens Card, the Portman Card and the Validate Card. All give an indication of a purchaser's age and have the potential to reduce the problem of age restricted sales considerably.

Other acceptable proof of age would include a passport or a photo card driving license both of which contain a photograph of the bearer.

Whatever Proof of Age is accepted employees must always check to ensure it relates to the person attempting the sale and that they are of the correct age to make the purchase. It is not acceptable to task for Proof of Age and then not verify either the photograph or the age of the person because it has been produced across a counter or that the store is busy.

YABU - She is just doing her job, and she cant sell it to you if she knows that you are buying it for your DD.

I also worked for a large supermarket chain, and if I had done what you are suggesting abouteve and a supervisor found out I could be disciplined. Its the law and you and your DD could have been mystery shoppers.