To want parents to stop blaming their child's teacher for everything?

[starlightexpress]

I'm just so sick of reading parents on here moaning about how crap their child's teacher is for one reason or another (not aimed at any particular thread this evening, btw).

In any given class of thirty-three, seventy percent of my time is spent dealing with about three kids who couldn't give a fuck. They don't want to learn, they don't want anyone else to learn. I'm not talking SEN, here, I'm talking just plain naughty.

As far as I'm concerned, the majority of the time when a parent is on here moaning about how shitty their child's teacher is, it falls into one of four categories.

Either your child is:

a)Badly brought up and you're making excuses for them.

b)So-called "SEN" which means they can behave when they want to, but misbehave most of the time using said SEN as an excuse. You allow them to do this because you prefer not to take any responsibility for their behaviour.

c)Genuinely suffering from an SEN, which I probably know very little about and am given little support (either in terms of training or TAs or resources)for.

d)Suffering from the fall out of "inclusion" which means that so much of my time is spent firefighting (see a, b and c) that I don't have the time to spend on your child that they deserve.

Of course there are crap teachers. There are also medicore teachers and there are good teachers who have crap days and make crap judgements sometimes. But mostly it is not your child's teacher's fault.

If you are a C or a D parent, then get thee to the Head, the governers, the local MP and kick up an almighty fuss. You're right to be upset, I don't blame you, I'm not happy about it either but what can I do? I'm doing my very very best but I can't fight the system on my own.

If you're an A or a B parent, do what the fuck you want - that's what you do anyway, and I'm not interested in your whining.

Before you ask, I teach in an inner city secondary school. Not the worst school in the whole world but not great either.

I'm a relatively experienced teacher with a decent results record. I don't have classroom management issues - last Ofsted (they actally watched some of my lesson) they said that this was a strength, fwiw. It's worth nothing actually, as Ofsted couldn't identify one end of a decent lesson from another, but I know their opinion matters to a lot of you.

Go on, flame me, I will have heard worse at parents evening, I can take it.

AIBU?

Starlightexpress you do a fantastic job, I agree with Chegirl earlier on, I wouldn't and probably couldn't be a teacher!

I have alot of friends and family who are teachers and rather than moaning and blaming I agree you need support, and perhaps we need to check our parenting from time to time, but be careful before you judge.

Admittedly, my ds is only 6 (year 2), a different age range, but at the beginning of this year his teacher gave me the impression that she thought he was misbehaving because he's a spoilt brat - after getting to know him she could see that he has problems with his social skills and arranged for him to be in a nurture group to help him.

Sadly some parents really do have little understanding at how diffeent it needs to be to manage a room of 30 children as opposed to one or two at home. What works at home may well not work in a big classroom. Also, parents do need to see (and I am afraid from my experience some do not) that there are 30 hildren in a class, not just their one child - and they are all entitled to just as much of the teacher's time as one another. A teacher hasn't always got the time to do lots of one to one, and to give just one child special treatement all the time - because he pr she has to consider the other 29 children as well.

howeevr I know that most parents on Mn are good decent people who actually do care and don't winge about their teachers without valid reasons.

But equally I know that there is a significant minority of parents (not talking on MN here but in general) that do blame everything on school and avoid seeing what is really the matter. And whether parents like it or not a lot of behaviour issues that happen at school are just that - behaviour issues (not all, not talking about SEN here). And, even more of a stumblin block for some parents is that a lot of those behvaioural issues come from hme - they are just made worse in school, with an audience, within the stricter parameters, etc.

What is desperately needed is for parents and teachers to work together.

Clemette we had to beg for ds3's unit palce- at the time whe was non bverbal and incontinent, now he ahs language but limited. there isn't a lace for ds1.

My experience- as someone who does a lot of informaladvocacy- is that if you don't fight you either get sidelined in MS or allocated a palce in an inappropriate school (eg ASD kids who end up in EBD units).

I sat today with the Mum of a child that I would say is very markedly autistic (has a dx of spectrum disorder) whilst the LEA explained that for the third month in a row, they forgot to take his SNU palce to pamel.

I do now Mums fighting to keep their kids in MS- one on here and one in RL- but they are IMO in the minority, and have good reasons.

The system is designed to keep poeple in whatever is cheapest, not what serves the most needs. Departmental;ised budgets mean there is no overview or understanding that an appropriate placement may lead to increased taxes through more working disabled, less parental breakdown or marriage brending (with related benefit reliance and healthcare costs), less claimed in CA and more paid in parental taxation.

The whole system is a mess.

but there is an equally large significant minority of teachers whose attitudes towards parents (and sometimes children) are arrogant, intractable and downright offensive. Thankfully neither of my sons' teachers falls anywhere near this category - but I have known many who do.

One-sided debates and sweeping generalisations (like the one in the thread title) are just blunt instruments and never helpful IMO.

Be careful which school you choose Grammaticus, there are no requirements for provate schools to have qualified teachers. I found this to my horror when, fresh off the boat, i had a job working in the kitchen of a very posh private school with whispers it>> royal connections. It transpired that the Aussie and Kiwi kitchen staff were, to a person, more qualified than the teaching staff.

I agree that there are Greensleves. Just like in every occupation/group of people - always a mix of good, average and bad.

I am guessing the OP just felt a tad fed up over stuff today, just like we all do sometimes. Granted a parenting forum is perhaps not the ideal place at times for that kind of comment, but then I know we are all liable for the odd outburst at times

Mind you what I discovered a few years ago on MN is that these threads never end well and, from a teacher's point of view, it is best to just not go there. It really is not owrht it. Been there, done that! And I know a few other MN teachers, past and present, who also discovered the same too.

starlight, I feel your pain. (responding to OP only). That is why I no longer teach- thanks to parents in categories a and b refusing to get their precious darlings under control. And I was deemed to be good or excellent in OFSTED inspections. I was latterly in a school where there 5 or 6 little As and Bs per class of 26. It was hell.

I can see it must be difficult being a teacher on MN sometimes. These threads usually get very ugly

but it probably wouldn't be much fun trying to put across an aggrieved parent's perspective on the TES site either.....

Kid ,my 15 yr old son just read your phone message post and nearly wet himself ,quite ironic given a teacher rang today and told us the level of work he is doing at the moment means he will fail! Obviousley this had nothing to do with the miniscule effort he is currently putting in and must be solely down to the crap teacher

Thanks guys. I have a school in mind. I love the atmosphere there and so does DS1. It gets excellent results and there is a real sense of enthusiasm for everything.

Morloth - have lost track of a lot of the thread but it would be very rare for an AST to earn 60,000. 600000 is a deputy head in a reasonably sized secondary school I should think. I am an AST on the upper-pay scale and don't earn anything like 60,000 (although am not in London)!

Sticking to the money thing: I don't think teachers are badly paid really. However, compared to other professionals, they may well be.

My biggest issue as a teacher, and the biggest cause of stress in my day to day life, is that I have to wear too many 'hats' and that, since I'm not a deputy head or head, although I have a senior role, I don't get given any extra time to actually do any of the work required for that role so am trying to organise timetables, plan new curriculum programmes, train staff, run a department etc etc on a full teaching timetable. The pupils, are the whole, are the least of my worries and help to keep me sane!

OP I agree with you.
I am often astonished at what some of my otherwise intelligent friends complain to the school about.

Also from code of practice (as the thread discusses SEN it's relevant)
'Schools should not assume that children's learning difficulties always result solely or even mainly from problems within the child. A school's own practices make a difference - for good or ill.'

Exactly greensleeves

YANBU - I find it amazing how parents who do little or nothing in terms of their child's development other than switch on the TV for two hours before school then another two afterwards then moan that their DCs are behaving and achieving below average.

On SENs though if I were you I would push to get better trained or self-educate, I've done that for my job when suitable training wasnt available.

Noonki - how do you know the children are in front of the TV?

I find these threads so sad as people pile in and say I couldn't be a teacher, awful job, crap pay and conditions.

Even when I was working in a "sink" school with very difficult students I adored my job and could not imagine myself doing anyhing else. It is IMO one of the most rewarding jobs in the world and you get a secure pension, decent pay and greay holidays. You may not earn a fortune but you only earn money to buy things to make you happy. My job makes me happier than any flash car or huge house in the country ever could. Infact if I left teaching I think I would need drugs to give me the high I get from my job.

I think the OP hs just had a hard day and we have all been there. You just need to watch how many hard days you have. When I was at my previous school I remember the feeling that I was having more bad days than I wanted and was struggling to keep up with the emotional demands I left for everyone's sake.

I am very proud that my little sister has chosen to go into teaching because she wants a career that makes her as happy as mine has.

But I second hula's advice about these threads ending badly. I think in all my time on mumsnet I have posted once a few years ago about the fact I was not enjoying my job and everyone piled in to tell me I was a shit teacher and they hoped I would never teach their kids.

OP
"In any given class of thirty-three, seventy percent of my time is spent dealing with about three kids who couldn't give a fuck"

So children like my ds who wants to work hard and behaves well gets only 30% of your time.

This is what irks me if i'm honest.. I can only speak for ds's class but i'm tired of the fact that he hardly gets any attention as the teacher is so busy dealing with the "naughty" minority.
They use a reward system and the rewards are going to the "naughty" ones who just so happen to behave for an hour or 2. The ones who quietly get on with things don't get one. Ds is only 7 and noticed this for himself. A friend of his actually commented to his mum that the teacher only really talks a lot to you if you are naughty.

janeite that was kind of my point.

I just pulled that number off the tda website. It does max out at that for a "teacher" role, so I would assume that most teachers are actually way under that.

As I said, it is all relative. I can make more than that in my profession and I can absolutely guarantee you that I don't have one tenth of the grief that teachers get and the work I do is nowhere near as important (I pretty much move pieces of paper around).

DH pushes buttons, he pushes the right buttons and in the right order, but he gets paid a lot more than a teacher for doing so.

Teaching along with nursing, policing etc should be paid MUCH better and treated with the respect the jobs deserve, no way are teachers/nurses/police paid what they should be.

I agree that perhaps we need more respect although I could count on one hand ( OK maybe two) the times I have not had it. But we don't need more money. Our pay is adjusted for our holidays as well I think so bearing that in mind we are well paid.

barnsleybelle I just wanted to reassure you, and many others, that the OP's experinece is not the experience of all teeachers. Some of us work in schools that are organised in a way that enables us to get the balance right.
Perhaps that is why there is not a great meeting of teacher minds on this. My job is great, my kids (from all over the learning and behaviour spectrum) are great. Some of them struggle, some of them fly. Some of them give me a headache by the end of the lesson (some of them have been giving me a headache for five years and have left today). We all have tough and stressful times in teaching but I stand by my earlier statement - if you are routinely thinking of either parents or (more importantly) children as shitty then you are in the wrong job.
Our job is to do the best for those in front of us whatever their circumstances. Once you say you don't want to do that, and have lost your belief in the iunherent goodness and potential of all children, then it is time to move on.

I agree clemette although sometimes the answer is to move schools rather than a career change. Although I have to say I have rarely thought that the kids are shitty, maybe this is too much work or I am finding this too stressful.

But I suspect the OP is just having a bad day

I know it was Morloth, sorry - I told you I'd lost track of the thread!

You know what though? I love my job and would do the classroom side of it for free if needsbe, as there is no greater high than having a group of pupils responding to you and learning (step forward my Yr 10: I love you!!!).

On the other hand, there is no greater low (am talking outside of death, disease and disaster here) than having a shite day, where you feel as if the pupils, parents etc are all against you: which is why the OP, who is clearly a caring and effective teacher posting on ann off-day, has my sympathies.

'an' not 'ann' - am multi-tasking to a ludicrous level at the mo!