AIBU - to be really pissed off that epidurals are being restricted?

[christmasmum]

Was just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine saying that epidurals are classed as an 'abnormal birth' and that they should be restricted in the future to avoid women having caesareans.

What is this all about? Why should women not be free to make their own decision on pain relief, while being aware of the risks involved in every form of pain relief? And is it not the case that women having diffcult births in the first place are more likely to BOTH have an epidural AND end up having a c-section anyway??

Before giving birth to my DD I bought into all the information from the NCT, books and magazines etc and was determined to go for a 'natural' birth. I ended up being induced and despite being told by every woman I have ever spoken to who has been induced, that I should have an epidural the midwife advised me that I would not need one. After 10 hours of intense contractions and finding out I was a huge 2cm dilated I decided enough was enough and had an epidural.

I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process, 2 1/2 hours later (despite the consultant arriving to prep me for a c-section) I found out I was fully dilated and delivered my wee girl after 5 minutes of pushing to a room that was full of people laughing and singing Christmas carols.

I obviously only have my own experience to go by but I am absolutely convinced that the relaxing effect of being out pain helped me deliver my baby naturally.

What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'. And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??

AAGGGHHHHH. Rant over.

I just wanted to say that my NCT classes were excellent and we discussed all of the pain relief options including epidural. I am shocked by some of your stories of how rubbish the anti-natal courses have been. It really made a big difference to me that I had such good prep before I had my baby.

We need to be able to make informed choices and anti-natal classes have a responsibility to give us the facts. Giving birth is painful and there is no medal for doing it "the natural way". Just as well really as out of the 6 of us at the NCT anti-natal class 4 ended up having epidurals. We all got the same reward though - lovely, heathy babies.

Incidentally I had my baby at home so epidural was not an option, but if I had been in hospital I think it's likely I would have taken the epidural if offered. And been extremely grateful for it!

This thread has made me so cross! I am fed up with being made to feel like a wimp because I had an epidural. KathyBrown really pissed me off by implying that anyone who resorts to an epidural is too half-witted to have educated herself on having a natural birth. I went to both NCT classes and the normal antenatal classes, as well as reading everything I could get my hands on. I wanted to have a natural birth like most women, but after 2 days of labour, no sleep and a baby back-to-back, I was frankly too exhausted to cope with the pain any longer. I had an epidural when I was 8cm dilated because the midwife said it could have gone on for hours more as DD still had to turn herself round. It was fantastic! I went to sleep for an hour and woke up refreshed to push. Although I couldn't feel the contractions, the midwife told me when to push and I could feel how to push. If I have another child I wouldn't have another epidural if I could cope with the pain (and hopefully the next one won't be back-to-back), but if I wanted one, I would want to have the option!

This thread is making me cross too - none of the natural birth no epidural types have replied to my post above..I would like to know what they would have done in my situation?

Dippywhentired - sounds as though you did just the right thing and am glad your baby turned round in the end.

happy...just read your post, and I think you didn't really have much choce, did you...

I think it can be very frsutrating when people seem to make it sound like it is lack of information that f*&%£d you labour/Birth up...because, of course that is not necessarily the case at all (like I said earlier, I was, with my 3'rd ds better informed than I ever had been, but it ended up to be my personal trauma Birth story, affecting me a long while, etc...)...

however, sadly it is true that women are not always the best advised by those they depend on to care for them....and that is very ad...often it is not the midwives, etc....fault, even, often they are stunted in their approaches and in their ability to give client centred care, because of Hopsital protocols and resources... and THAT is what needs to be addressed....

man....sorry for badddddddddd typing there...

Happywomble - there are no 'natural birth no epidural' types on this board. I haven't seen a single post which suggests or states outright that nobody needs an epidural or that they should routinely be restricted. Have you? Maybe you could link us to it.

Re: your particular situation...... First labours are tough even when they're straightforward. Being induced makes it even harder. I'm sure your epidural was a blessed relief. You did what you could do at the time, under the guidance of the people who were caring for you. That's all any of us can do.

Crosseyed. I was referring to comments like the following:

Violet Hill said:
"People have different pain thresholds, and also different views on what they are prepared to put up with. If you are very pro- natural birth and anti- intervention, you may well be prepared to put up with a lot more pain than someone who isn't too bothered about natural birth."

Crosseyeandpainless said
"If the research shows that there are some things we can do as individuals to reduce the likelyhood of needing medical help to birth our babies, then it doesn't make sense to argue that we have no meaningful choices in childbirth. We do have choice. We might choose an epidural and spend our labours in bed. We might mobilise throughout labour and work with our bodies to help our babies be born."

Some people in labour have a lot more choices than others and it isn't always to do with how much pain one can put up with.

In your post you imply that if people have an epidural they are not working with their bodies to get the baby out. Well in my case my body wasn't working to get the baby out that was the problem.

ps meant to say at the beginning - thank you crosseyed and fairlady for reading my earlier post and your replies.

few points to make, did it ever occur to someone that epidurals dont prolong labour but that those women who need them would have problems anyway, back to back or large baby, whatever and so end up havin an epi so its correlation rather than cause and effect.
also it annoys me when people say labour is a natural process and shouldn't require drugs, death is a natural process but we dont let people die in pain!
i have had plenty of people who have had short labours or drug free labours tell me i didnt relax into it! i can sympathise with anyone that had a bad time, bring on the drugs!!!!!!!1
for me i went thru bath, brthing ball, TENS, paracetamol, codiene, gas and air, pethidine and two failed epis i actually didnt want the baby in the end....48hrs and still going despite being accelerated, i was in agony i coulnt breathe properly! thats not a natural process is it, requires drugs to speed labour up, as long as women have information they should be able to choose, i got a sucessful epi when anaethetist changed shifts, could still feel contractions and needed gas but soooo much better baby born 4hurs later in theatre NATURALLY, having an epi can still mean natural in my eyes

Menstruation is a natural process, too. But nobody goes at the thought of popping a painkiller to dull period pain.

Different issues Cote - there are no signficant consequences to taking pain killers during your period, and there's only one person involved.

lilyrose,
I'm sure a recent study in Australia showed just what you proposed... that rather than causing complications/slow labour, women who requested epis normally had complicated/slow labours ... which is why they needed an epi...

thanks potoroo i'll look into that, i do think these women prob have worse and prolonged pain which makes them opt for the epi.....i'm going to research this x

here is an interesting site i've come across whilst researching the correlation between epis and painful labours.....

nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2009/03/women-in-labour-to-be-denied-epidurals.html

quote from this site:

"Angry Gasman said...
sorry, pregnancy and labour cause backache - not epidurals.

Epidurals come with a finite, but actually very, very small risk of nerve damage, most of which is fully reversible.

The evidence that epidurals are linked to increased interventions or prolonged labour is highly speculative - there is a correlation between the two but no one has demonstrated causation. The longer a labour goes on the more likely someone is to request and receive an epidural, so the two are related but need not cause one another.

As a counterpoint, I've seen women who have been labouring 'naturally' for hours and hours, are utterly exhausted, frantic and despondant - remove their pain with an epidural and they are able to go on, actively take part in their labour and so avoid intervention.

This document is an odious farce - I would not want a fractured hip fixed 'naturally' or to have my appendix out using a bouncy ball and some entonox. Frankly denial of adequet analgesia to labouring women is abuse and shows a lack of respect."

www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1764008

research in australia showing no significant difference in assited delivery rates, or c sections, or prolonging in those patients having epi, looking for more evidence........

www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7G79-4HBRRPW-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_ori g=search&sort=d&view=c&acct=C000050221&version=1&urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=df7c2cdaf24b2dad246 0d67b0be1c283

the last paragraph in the summary of this study is interesting.........

"British mothers and their carers have an amazing capacity to attribute all manner of postnatal symptoms to epidural analgesia which is markedly detrimental as every attribution tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy."

www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2253-6-15.pdf

and another study showing there is no evidence that epis cause assisted deliveries or longer labours

It's weird actually, I have just tried to think about Birthstories told by my german friends...where painrelief is not really an option (unless forceps/ventouse/C-section)....and gas and air is not even available at all and I can't really think of bad Birth stories....saying that, I was mighty pleased, despite only needing gas and air the first 2 times, that I was living in the UK by the time I had my Babies....

must really look into this a bit, and look if there is much Birth trauma experienced....etc...and in germany it is very medically orientated, i.e. miwives don't deliver, there is a obgyn there to deliver, etc....

just a ponderence really...

I recommend the diamorphine personally
Now if they restricted that, I think I'd have to sue

hi sasamaxx, what was the diamorphine like? i had 2 failed epi then two doses of 100mg of pethidine with no effect, they offered me diamporphine, but new anaethitist arrived and i got a successful epi, but in america and i think portland?? they use diamorphine over pethidine, wondered if it would have been better.

Well I think it's fantastic, but I do realise that it's a personal thing. It basically completely calmed me down, dulled down the pain and made me feel really positive and happy. It's very mind altering in an extremely good way and I had been panicking really badly before I got it!
I wouldn't hesitate to have it again

There are still some people who are misreading or misunderstanding posts on this thread.

FWIW, I don't think anyone has been 'pro natural and totally anti epidural', apart from Kathy who disappeared a while back.

Many of us are very much in favour of natural childbirth, but that doesn't mean we're suggesting epidurals should be banned - how utterly ridiculous! I don't mind how other women deliver their babies! The important thing is that women are given honest and accurate information about side effects, increased risks etc.

Happywomble, you seem to be upset by my post:
Violet Hill said:
"People have different pain thresholds, and also different views on what they are prepared to put up with. If you are very pro- natural birth and anti- intervention, you may well be prepared to put up with a lot more pain than someone who isn't too bothered about natural birth."

Why? It's a simple fact. It may not apply to everyone, but it's certainly true of some. I've a few friends who knew absolutely when they booked into hospital that they would almost certainly want an epidural, they knew the score, they simply made a considered decision that this would be best for them, and they didn't have massively strong feelings about giving birth naturally. On the other hand, if you do have strong feelings about natural birth, you are less likely to take that route.

People also have different pain thresholds and react to pain differently - why is it a problem to state that fact? I just have to look at my kids to know that. One used to cope with normal childhood falls and bumps by just getting up and toddling off, while another would scream the place down and get very distressed!

Yes, it's quite possible that some women who give birth without epidural have experienced a lesser degree of pain that someone who has an epidural, but we have no way of knowing that as everyone's experience is individual. It's also quite possible that some women experience greater pain but give birth without epidural!

All we know is our own experience. As I said, I gave birth to my first in a MLU without epidural, and I know I felt I wanted to die during part of the labour. Later that week a woman in the unit had her first baby and she said although it hurt, it really honestly wasn't as bad as she was expecting and she never once felt really frightened by the level of pain. Whereas I felt crowning flet like splitting in two, she described it as stinging but not really painful. So that in itself shows that we all have different pain thresholds!

If you are happy with the choice you made and the birth you had then you are not going to resent anyone who did it differently.

I liken it to running a marathon. Three of us at work took up running a while back and trained towards doing a half marathon. As the day approached I realised I was just not ready for it. My running and stamina have improved loads, but not to the point where I felt confident i could enter the race and complete it. My work mates did it - it was gruelling and i could tell from their faces afterwards that they had pushed themselves to their limit. Does this make them in any way better or superior? No it doesn't. And they would never claim that. There may well be reasons why they are naturally better runners than I am which are nothing to do with training and preparation. Maybe their natural physique, or stamina etc is more suited to it than mine.

Having said that, I'm not going to try to deny them the glory of what they did, just because I didn't achieve it (yet!) I was on the side lines cheering them on. They put in hours of training and they deserve to feel fantastic about it.

Why can't we be like that about childbirth? I would not resent a woman who achieves a natural birth, or feel that she couldn't possibly have felt much pain. Hats off to them, let them feel good about their experience. And if you do it differently, then so what? As long as we have healthy babies at the end that's what counts.

Maybe more women should be encouraged to try hypnobirthing courses or given free relaxation technique CDs. I was petrified that birth would be unbearable, until I went on a hypnosis course. I found that not only was it not unbearable, it could be quite enjoyable. My first child was not the easiest according to the midwives but I didn't feel I needed any pain relief, even though it was an episiotomy and forceps in the end, but I was quite relaxed. The second time, it was so relaxed, it was quite surreal, again no need for anything. I don't think I would have been so calm without the course. The tutor stressed that pain is caused by body being tense and expecting it to be painful. By overcoming the expectation, it was more relaxed and comfortable. I think free hypnosis/relaxation would save the NHS a fortune. The introductory hypnosis taster I went to before I signed up, was free on the NHS. Definitely recommended.

crosseyed - Do you understand what I was saying or not?

Birth is a natural process but we might very well need painkillers.

Just like menstruation is a natural process where we might very well need painkilers.

The statement "Birth is a natural process so needs no painkillers" is demonstrably wrong.