AIBU - to be really pissed off that epidurals are being restricted?

[christmasmum]

Was just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine saying that epidurals are classed as an 'abnormal birth' and that they should be restricted in the future to avoid women having caesareans.

What is this all about? Why should women not be free to make their own decision on pain relief, while being aware of the risks involved in every form of pain relief? And is it not the case that women having diffcult births in the first place are more likely to BOTH have an epidural AND end up having a c-section anyway??

Before giving birth to my DD I bought into all the information from the NCT, books and magazines etc and was determined to go for a 'natural' birth. I ended up being induced and despite being told by every woman I have ever spoken to who has been induced, that I should have an epidural the midwife advised me that I would not need one. After 10 hours of intense contractions and finding out I was a huge 2cm dilated I decided enough was enough and had an epidural.

I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process, 2 1/2 hours later (despite the consultant arriving to prep me for a c-section) I found out I was fully dilated and delivered my wee girl after 5 minutes of pushing to a room that was full of people laughing and singing Christmas carols.

I obviously only have my own experience to go by but I am absolutely convinced that the relaxing effect of being out pain helped me deliver my baby naturally.

What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'. And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??

AAGGGHHHHH. Rant over.

ROFL @ Libra's apparent enormous power over national NHS policy, that her slightest word on the internet will immediately be implemented nationwide

Bene following this thread for a few days and I only have one observation, and apologoes if this has already been done.....

I really really do not comprehend why a woman would choose to give birth anywhere other than a hospital. IMHO I feel it is rather selfish of the woman to risk not being as close as possible to, what I would call, proper medical assistance should, god forbid, anything happen to babe once born - just so she can feel she has acheived something by a natural birth. Fine the ambulance is on tap but seconds are precious when it comes to a life saving situation.

Flame me all you want but for me its a no brainer which is why I for one would like to see MLU's re-sited onto local hospitals. The woman still gets the birth she wants but is also onsite should anything go wrong.

I had an easy good birth I would call it natural but reading here maybe it is not. I woke at 1 am to waters breaking I went to hospital to discover baby was posteriour and cc were 3 mins apart. I was dumped in a room and was not checked again until 6 pm I didn't wind actually found it better that no one was fussing me. Mw said I was 2 cm dilated I was gutted. I was then left alone again until 9 pm when mw checked I was 2 1/2 cm so I asked for some pethadine she said as my labor was going to be days she would only give a quarter of the dose. I tried to sleep however I couldn't as I was in too much pain at quarter to 12 I begged mw to check me 3 times and I was 9 1/2 cm baby was still op but he was born at 12.30 no tear. Does this count as a natural birth owing to the pethadine and the fact that I had no music or any of the other things like aromatherapy. This time I am birthing in a mlu because I didn't like the fact that I had to cry and beg for her to check me otherwise I would have delivered the baby myself Also didn't like the consultant popping his head in and saying if she has not had it by 6 tomorrow we will c section I want to be as far from him as possible. No the ward was not understaffed there were three mw sat in room drinking tea. But I have nothing against epidural I had put it down as a last resort as the idea did not appeal to me. But although funding has to come from somewhere it is not fair to completely close either mlu or stop epis in my opinion they are both valid birth choices both have risks and it is up to the mother to decide what risks are okay to her.

Apologies!!, sorry apologies.....

sorry let me insert paragraphs.
I had an easy good birth I would call it natural but reading here maybe it is not. I woke at 1 am to waters breaking I went to hospital to discover baby was posteriour and cc were 3 mins apart. I was dumped in a room and was not checked again until 6 pm I didn't wind actually found it better that no one was fussing me.
Mw said I was 2 cm dilated I was gutted. I was then left alone again until 9 pm when mw checked I was 2 1/2 cm so I asked for some pethadine she said as my labor was going to be days she would only give a quarter of the dose. I tried to sleep however I couldn't as I was in too much pain at quarter to 12 I begged mw to check me 3 times and I was 9 1/2 cm baby was still op but he was born at 12.30 no tear.
Does this count as a natural birth owing to the pethadine and the fact that I had no music or any of the other things like aromatherapy. This time I am birthing in a mlu because I didn't like the fact that I had to cry and beg for her to check me otherwise I would have delivered the baby myself Also didn't like the consultant popping his head in and saying if she has not had it by 6 tomorrow we will c section I want to be as far from him as possible.
No the ward was not understaffed there were three mw sat in room drinking tea. But I have nothing against epidural I had put it down as a last resort as the idea did not appeal to me.
But although funding has to come from somewhere it is not fair to completely close either mlu or stop epis in my opinion they are both valid birth choices both have risks and it is up to the mother to decide what risks are okay to her.

I think you hit the nail on the head lovelytinofspam. It is about tact - if you had a wonderful childbirth experience, or got all A grades in 4 'A' levels, or manged to sell your house in 2 weeks for the full asking price. I am honestly happy for you - but unless you are fairly sure about how other people's lives are going can you just pipe down a bit?
Its not about us lesser mortals saying we don't want anyone to do well, and its not about forcing you to never ever talk about it. Its about you recognising that what all went swimmingly well for you doesn't go well for many other people and that it can be distressing to hear someone talking about how easy/ marvellous it was for them if your own experience was traumatic.

Things that really rile me about the whole 'how did you give birth' are;
This obsession with a 'natural birth', now if you: didn't use any contraception, didn't have any scans, didn't actually talk to a GP, didn't use folic acid supplements, didn't read birth charts, and then gave birth in a cave with no pain relief, no hot running water and no TV or internet, then you may have managed to get close to a 'natural' pregnancy and birth experience. (natural as in not utilising modern technology). Modern technology and medicine aren't evil demons you know.

The assumption that because you didn't have pain relief that people how do have pain relief are somehow failing. Newsflash - pain can kill you! otherwise why would physical tortue be so bloody effective?!?!
Some people deal with pain more effectivly, some people have higher pain thresholds. You can never have any idea just how someone else feels pain. As an example, every day I deal with pain in the form of an old shoulder injury. But when we go paddling in the sea DH walks straight in whilst me feet seize up and cramp in agony from the cold/pain - same temperature water but we react differently.

The assumption that what worked for you in your birth will work for eveyone. That can be the natural birth mob banging on about home births and smelly oils, or people looking at you as if you are mad when you dont' want to be in hospital.
I think I just made a point about people being different?

The idea that it matters that much? I mean of course it matters if it was awful and you want to avoid it in the future or it was so good you want to redo those things. But other than that - if you and the baby(s) come out alive and healthy (physically, mentally and emotionally) with the least amount of trauma and pain having been experienced by all then thats what matters.

"I really really do not comprehend why a woman would choose to give birth anywhere other than a hospital."
because she is scared of hospitals and fear /dread can affect your ability to give birth easily.
because birth is not an emergancy medical problem but a normal condition that can be managed successfully at home
because statistically women giving birth at home with support from a midwife or similar have births which they report as 'good' with less need for intervention (of course high risk mums aren't usually able to give birth at home)
because she may feel strongly that her babies first sight should be of their own home not an anonomous hospital ward
because hospitals are breeding grounds for disease
because she has x other children and organising childcare for them whilst being rushed to hospital would be impossible/expensive/ traumatic
because her local hospital is very medicalised/ has a bad reputation about births

and those are just SOME reasons!

IMHO I feel it is rather selfish of the woman to risk not being as close as possible to, what I would call, proper medical assistance should,

Ah a midwife isn't proper medical assitance then?

god forbid, anything happen to babe once born - just so she can feel she has acheived something by a natural birth.
A home birth isn't necesarily any more natural than a hospital birth its just in surrounding that you can control and feel comfortable

Fine the ambulance is on tap but seconds are precious when it comes to a life saving situation.
Yes it is - but high risk pregnancies aren't usually able to deliver at home, plus even in hospital it isn't always 'seconds' before you get the consultant/surgeon needed.

There are plenty of people left struggling by themselves in hospital wards and plenty of births that go wrong in hospital due to change over of staff and general mucking up.

In no way is it selfish for a woman giving birth to want to do that in the place that she feels will offer her the best support.

Lenin - I had a natural birth and had no grin on my face. I was in shock and couldn't stop crying. I refused to open my eyes or look at my baby and was wimpering about how much pain i was in as my uterus continued to contract, my placenta nearly got caught in me, i contined to bleed and they took over an hour to stitch me up in stirrups. I couldn't sleep for shock and couldn't function for it either. I had no natural high and am baffled by people who do because my experience was the most traumatic experience i have ever gone through. I hope that second time roud is better but i think i will take Quattro's lead and demand to have it writing to have any pain relief i ask for immediately.

I was denied pain relief in my first birth. I was screaming for it at 10pm, again at midnight and son wasn't born until 3am and all teh way through they were going - it's too late. 4 hours of me screaming for pain relief and they kept refusing. It was horrific and barbaric in my opinion. I hated every moment of it and am finding little joy in this pregnancy as all i fear is the birth.

Stig for you.

So many dreadful tales on this thread. It just makes me really sad. Women should not have to go through this stuff in this day and age.

The amount of women I know who have been traumatised by their births is frankly appalling.

Lovelytinofspam - seems like we can't win. Talk about having a 'good' birth and you get accused of being smug and tactless. Talk about a difficult birth and you get accused of fearmongering. Maybe we should all maintain the sort of silence on this subject that was the norm in the past, so that women go into childbirth with no idea whatsoever of the range of experiences that other women have.

Personally I don't see why I shouldn't talk about my births in the right context. All my births were all difficult, but I still came out feeling good about them (by difficult I mean one 26 hour labour with 9lbs 6oz posterior baby, ending in forceps birth and infected stitches; one shoulder dystocia with an 11lb babt; one 30 hour labour with another posterior baby). I think sometimes that knowing that labour can be really tough and complicated can be helpful, as is knowing that how you feel about your birth doesn't necessarily connect with how well the birth went in strictly medical terms.

'I had no natural high and am baffled by people who do because my experience was the most traumatic experience i have ever gone through. I hope that second time roud is better but i think i will take Quattro's lead and demand to have it writing to have any pain relief i ask for immediately.'

I'm with you, there!

That's why I think ALL women should have access to epidural, or whatever form of pain relief they chose, on demand.

When you go to casualty with a dislocated shoulder or needing stitches they wouldn't dream of treating you without pain relief.

But somehow childbirth seems to be the exception?

It's misogynistic, barbaric and just dead wrong.

"I hope that second time roud is better but i think i will take Quattro's lead and demand to have it writing to have any pain relief i ask for immediately.

I was denied pain relief in my first birth."

I feel sorry for you Stig that you had such a horrific experience. If I was you I wouldn't just have it in writing what you want for your next birth, I'd request a meeting with the supervisor of midwives to talk through what happened in your last birth, and get her to go through your birth plan with you and sign it.

Halia - you have made criticisms of views which haven't been expressed on this thread, like:

"The assumption that because you didn't have pain relief that people how do have pain relief are somehow failing."

Who has said or implied this?

"The assumption that what worked for you in your birth will work for eveyone"

Who has said or implied that all women need and want the same thing in labour?

You are setting up false arguments.

"if you and the baby(s) come out alive and healthy (physically, mentally and emotionally) with the least amount of trauma and pain having been experienced by all then thats what matters"

Well - "newsflash" - this is what all women want, including, as you so nicely put it the 'natural birth mob' (who ever these people are supposed to be). They know that it's not about 'experience hunting' but about helping mums to have the healthiest possible births.

"That's why I think ALL women should have access to epidural, or whatever form of pain relief they chose, on demand."

Yes agree - and also free access to homebirths and waterbirths, and continuous one to one support, as this is the pain relief of choice of a good number of women who can't have, or don't want epidurals.

Hi all, sorry but not read the whole thread but am now panicking somewhat!

I'm only at 10 week stage with my 1st, and have already started to worry about the whole horrible bit between being pg and having a pretty baby... I am officially the world's biggest coward, I faint at the drop of a hat and seeing blood makes me feel v. ill. I have never been brave about anything in my whole life and do not see this as a good time to start.

I was sort of expecting that in 2010, when in a hospital in pain, they'll be a fully qualified doctor giving me drugs to get rid of that pain. Or should I start saving for the private hosptial now?

Dizzy, I was exactly the same as you. I asked every midwife I saw, checked at the hospital tour, again and again and again to make sure I would get pain relief.

If you're VERY clear about what you want, and check out the facilities beforehand (do they have an anaesthetist for the maternity ward, for example?), and put it in writing and are prepared, along with your birth partner, to make a bit of a fuss if necessary - it should be fine.

In the end I was induced (overdue) and got my epidural offered first, so the lovely hospital gave me a lovely pain-free birth. I am grateful even yet.

This is a good reason why epidurals should not be restricted at all.

Mums to be should all be given free advice on the types of pain relief available and risks and be free to make their own decisions.

I did an NCT course knew all the drawbacks of epidurals and had a fear of the epidural itself. I'm sure epidural didn't feature in my birth plan. However when it came to the reality of my birth experience I was in so much pain and discomfort the birth plan went out the window and I was so relieved to have the epidural. I cannot imagine how bad it would have been if some had said "no we're not going to give you an epidural due to current NHS practice".

I do not believe the rising number of c sections is due to epidurals alone.

wouldn't contemplate having another baby if I wasn't sure an epidural would be available.

I didn't mess around, the minute I went in there, I said "I want an epidural!" and thankfully there was only me there and a woman who had just had a C-section so they got onto it straight away.

I was the last in my ante-natal group to give birth and I met a few of the other mums with their babies out and about not long before I was due, they were all: "oh I breathed through the pain and it was fine" kind of thing but I just knew that wasn't for me. I don't know if you have to , I suppose you get through it but the pain I did feel was enough for me

I agree, crosseyed!

I wasn't expected to 'breathe through' or cope with the pain of my surgeries, broken bones, cuts requiring stitches, impacted wisdom tooth removal, absessed teeth removals, root canals, so I had no problems asking for pain relief during childbirth.

From me finally giving in to urging from the midwives and agreeing to an epidural and the epidural actually being administered was 3 hours. Naively I thought that as they were pressing me to have one that might mean they were in a position to actually give me one.

One of the many reasons I am having a c-section this time. They can't do that without pain relief!

I think the key thing is very thorough ante natal classes & more money being spent on midwives/antenatal classes.

My mum told me childbirth was horrific & that she was in shock for weeks afterwards. As a result I had an epidutal. The labour was about 7 hours & of course they didn't want to top it up when it came to pushing. I panicked & couldn't push - just couldn't get to grips with pushing laying down. DD was born via ventouse. I don't think we really bonded because of that birth. DD1 had a funny little cone head & was, looking back, quite a sensitive baby. She still hates having her hair brushed.

DD2 was completly different. I decided that I wouldn't be able to have an epiduaral so better get some 'education'. I had nct classes which I thought were fantastic. When I went into labour with DD2, the pain was intense, but perhaps with the visualisation etc & standing up, I gave birth very fast & naturally. It was a fantastic experience, my body created all the endorphins etc. DD2 was very chilled & relaxed.

But Icantbelieve, all this really shows is that labours are different, and the second baby is usually easier. If it feels to yOU like agony, it probably is; can't we get into the habit of takign what women say seriously?

Lots of us were braced for natural birth and utterly overwhelmed by the pain. I've had agonising menstrual pain all my life, but childbirth was unimaginably worse. I too have flashbacks... ds is 14 and I still dream about it occasionally... OTOH, I had no pain at all breastfeeding, though I know women who went through torture. It's just a matter of luck. Can't we say that the goal is a healthy mum and baby who aren't too traumatised??

AbbyLubber - luck comes into it without a doubt. So much is down to the position of the baby and the unique physiology and psychology of the mother.

But other things can make a huge difference to how much pain we experience and how we feel about that pain afterwards. I think that when it comes to improving women's experience of labour, the overwhelming focus on epidurals as the ultimate answer to all issues surrounding pain is not a good thing. It oversimplifies the issue.

"I wasn't expected to 'breathe through' or cope with the pain of my surgeries, broken bones, cuts requiring stitches, impacted wisdom tooth removal, absessed teeth removals, root canals, so I had no problems asking for pain relief during childbirth."

Nobody is expected to cope with labour without pain relief as a matter of course, but plenty of people choose to do so, and are perfectly happy to do so, including some people who have challenging or long labours. I doubt you would find many people either wanting to get through surgery without pain relief, or being able to.

The difference is that - like it or not, some of have found that it is easier to get our babies out without doing damage to ourselves or to them when we aren't more or less paralysed from the waist down. There are also a good number of people who don't want to expose their babies to opiates during childbirth either.

I think it's actually quite disrespectful to people who choose to do without pain relief - (or choose to try to do without pain relief), to use the 'I wouldn't go for root canal treatment without pain relief' analogy, because it implies that women who don't want drugs in childbirth are idiotic and naive. I had very good reasons for not wanting pain relief that were mainly to do with trying to protect my health and the health of my babies. Most people I know who don't want drugs feel the same.

'I think it's actually quite disrespectful to people who choose to do without pain relief - (or choose to try to do without pain relief), to use the 'I wouldn't go for root canal treatment without pain relief' analogy, because it implies that women who don't want drugs in childbirth are idiotic and naive. I had very good reasons for not wanting pain relief that were mainly to do with trying to protect my health and the health of my babies.'

Oh, please! It's sharing an experience the same way others have shared theirs, so sue me!

I've done it both ways.

It's over and done with now, and, as my children are getting older, it seems a smaller and smaller part of things.

All I got out of it is that I think women should have access to wahtever mode of pain relief, or not, that they chose.

And that restricting their access is barbaric and wouldn't be tolerated or acceptable in any other setting.

No - it's not a 'shared experience', it's a tired old cliche which is always being trotted out about pain relief in childbirth - it adds nothing to the argument.