AIBU - to be really pissed off that epidurals are being restricted?

[christmasmum]

Was just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine saying that epidurals are classed as an 'abnormal birth' and that they should be restricted in the future to avoid women having caesareans.

What is this all about? Why should women not be free to make their own decision on pain relief, while being aware of the risks involved in every form of pain relief? And is it not the case that women having diffcult births in the first place are more likely to BOTH have an epidural AND end up having a c-section anyway??

Before giving birth to my DD I bought into all the information from the NCT, books and magazines etc and was determined to go for a 'natural' birth. I ended up being induced and despite being told by every woman I have ever spoken to who has been induced, that I should have an epidural the midwife advised me that I would not need one. After 10 hours of intense contractions and finding out I was a huge 2cm dilated I decided enough was enough and had an epidural.

I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process, 2 1/2 hours later (despite the consultant arriving to prep me for a c-section) I found out I was fully dilated and delivered my wee girl after 5 minutes of pushing to a room that was full of people laughing and singing Christmas carols.

I obviously only have my own experience to go by but I am absolutely convinced that the relaxing effect of being out pain helped me deliver my baby naturally.

What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'. And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??

AAGGGHHHHH. Rant over.

Loving the incompetant babies. Cory has a good point...

I can only speak from my own experience and certainly tearing, episiotomies, loss of sexual function, knackered pelvic floor were not mentioned. Risks of cascade of intervetion and all pain relief risks dealt with very thoroughly. I can't even imagine anyone mentioning cutting/tearing as part of ante-natal classes around here.

PW natural birth is pushed to the hilt IME, everyone I know went into it hoping and aiming for a natural delvery with as few drugs as possible. I'm not sure what part of crosseyed's post you're referring to re stats, but I don't think I've said anywhere about removing choice from women have I?

I think the problem is that people look at the stats and see cascade of intervention, one thing leading to another, having another woman there helping etc and say, well obviously that's the way to do it then. Women having natural midwife led births is the best and cheapest option. It doesn't take any of the other stuff into account.

No-one on this thread in "the other camp" is suggesting that women should be forced to go into hospital, have an epidural and legs in stirrups and 15 people rummaging around. Yet people are suggesting that if only women prepared a little harder, tried a little better, they too could have an empowering drug free birth experience.

I don't want an empowering drug free birth experinece, thank you, and nor do many on this thread. Mainly due to what happened last time. It all comes back to psychology and personal preference. We should have the choice.

I felt stronger after my caesarian. Mainly because I could sit on my fanjo .

Don't recollect any sort of achievement feeling after my vaginal. Not because I was traumatised. Just that dd seemed so much more important than the birth- she was the achievement, not the pushing.

The one thing that made me feel stronger in labour was the comforting presence of dh. Would have hated a female birth partner, simply because she'd have felt like an intruder.

Sorry LTOS, that wasn't what I meant - I didn't meant to imply that you wanted choice to be removed. Just that you seemed to dismiss cross-eyed's stat about female birth partners and their effects on CS rates as being insignificant.

Anyhoo xpost with those who enjoyed the hamster thing

DH says I have to go to bed now.

FWIW I have read that a top notch E is a rare and fabulous thing, and so on that basis will set about rearranging my birth plan first thing tomorrow

Policywonk - I also experienced the extreme euphoria you mentioned after my second birth, which was my only birth which took place at home.

I'll never forget that feeling.

I dropped some acid in my early 20's and experienced a sensation I can only describe as feeling completely at one with the universe, something similar to the sensation of ecstasy mentioned by Eckhart Tolle in 'The Power of One'. The feelings I had after having ds 2 was similar.

LTOS.. Who are the other camp?? What i'm seeing is that all on here just now want the same thing. Choice for women. We just don't all agree on the way to achieve that. Not sure what you mean by the other camp.

It is important to acknowledge that an epidural increases your chance of further intervention and they are not without side effects. It is also important that HCPs are actively promoting and offering all other forms of pain relief, natural or otherwise.

It is also important to acknowledge that for some women not getting adequete pain relief can leave them with emotional and mental scars.

Does having an epidural lead to more intervention or is it that women are put off asking for an epidural/ refused one when they do ask and by the time they insist / are finally 'allowed' to have one they are already at the point when intervention is probable.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that from what I've heard epidurals often happen after 8+ hours of pushing because your MW or GP was saying you ought to try it 'naturally' first. And after 8 hrs of pushing you are more likely to need additional intervention anyway than in the first hour.

I had a quick birth with no pain relief, it wasn't my choice to have no pain relief and tbh I STILL get flashbacks! I was angry enough that they forgot to refill the gas and air cannister to be told I COULDN'T have pain relief would have distressed me incredibly.

Eh up, all the ravers are crawling out from under their yak-hair blankets now...

PW I didn't dismiss the thing about female birth partners at all - I brought it up ages ago which is why I was a bit at the "stop and take heed ladies" tone of crosseyed's post.

"Yet people are suggesting that if only women prepared a little harder, tried a little better, they too could have an empowering drug free birth experience"

No - again, this is very unfair.

No one has suggested that there is any way of guaranteeing an 'empowering drug free birth experience', only that there are some choices we can make which can increase the likelyhood of a normal birth!

I absolutely loved labour I kid you not! Yes it was painful but it was great. I had pethidine first time round because an inexperienced student midwife couldn't talk me through using gas and air - I felt spaced out but actually liked it, however it did nothing for the pain. I delivered 1.5 hours after I had it. I had gas and air with the next three and loved that too. I truly enjoyed my labour. I was induced with number 3 and 4 and I enjoyed those labours too because I was experienced and knew what my body could do.

I have been with many women like me - especially when labouring in water (not available in my day).

I have also seen women who do not have textbook labours like me. Sometimes nature is a bitch and you don't know in advance what is going to happen.

MLUs do have pain relief - birthing pools which are also known as liquid epidurals, opiates and 'gas and air'.

I really feel for women who require to be transferred because labour does not progress as hoped and planned.

Fortunately in our unit women just need to go through a set of doors to get an epidural. Units such as mine are criticised for not trying hard enough at getting women through labour without the need for an epidural.

I make no apologies for transferring a woman who needs an epidural. There is no way on this earth that epidurals will be restricted.

I'm particularly interested in the natural high and bonding that people talk about. I asked a friend the other day who has experienced a drug-free vaginal birth if it was anything like the feeling you get after a long run when you first stop. You feel high and like you're walking on air and then there is a lovely warm glow and happy feelings for some time afterwards. She said it was similar.

which doesn't happen for everybody - as said in previuos post i had a fast drug free, home birth, with supportive midwife and supportive DH.
I was pysched up for a positive birth, had birth plan, and aromatherapy oils and had even seen a hypnotist to work through some 'zoning' and focusing techiniques.

It was horrible, I hated it, i didn't bond with DS until he was - oh about 2 YEARS OLD! there was certainly no natural high either when I held him, when i put him to breast or at any point following birth.

Fair enough LTOS, I misinterpreted your post

"Eh up, all the ravers are crawling out from under their yak-hair blankets now... "

Actually I've got my BHS pyjamas on and am wearing a pale blue 'passionkiller' nylon dressing gown my mum brought me.

That night tripping out in a camper van on Skye seems a looooong time ago now.

Sigh.....

I can still nip into DS's bedroom (where he was born) though and reminisce sentimentally while feasting on the sight of his lovely little head asleep on the pillow.....

aw

"MLUs do have pain relief - birthing pools which are also known as liquid epidurals, opiates and 'gas and air'."

Not much good having gas and air when you won't let women in labour use it, now, is it? Kind of like the empty birthing pools ...

"Why is there this emphasis on closing MLUs, when AFAIK there's no such proposal anywhere?"

Sorry that was me, it wasn't a written proposal handed into Gordon Brown or anything just a suggestion a couple of pages back that maybe the resources of a MLU could be diverted into a hospital so every labouring woman, not just the magical few with loins of steel, could enjoy creature comforts and support. Apparently this is denying women (are you ready for that magic word) choice, even tho I did try and keep pointing out that if the hospitals were up to the MLU standard they wouldn't need that choice.

Anyway in LibrasWorldofAmazingLabour everyone regardless of status/money would have education during their labour about all the possibilities and proper time spent learning relaxation techniques, with childcare available, so mothers could attend the classes. During labour every labouring mother would have 1 to 1 support with a midwife she has met beforehand and a birth partner who is both supportive and knowledgeable. There would be no waiting for a birth pool to be available or for one to be cleaned as each room would have one. And the delivery suite would have it's own dedicated anthestic person ready to admisitrer epidurals if required. Rooms will be equipped with fluffy pillows, and those balls I can't remember the name of right now, music systems capable of playing whale music or thrash metal, internet access so you can keep mumsnet updated would be free. And the rooms would be soundproofed so if you fancied screaming until the cows come home you can without a mw telling you off or you feeling self-concious. ONCE all this has been accomplished I would re-open the MLUs

All sounds lovely Libra, but until this happens, I damn well hope they don't close the MLUs because for thousands of women they offer the kind of birth they want and are entitled to! (And no I'm not magical and last time I looked my loins were just earthly flesh )

sighs

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CLOSE THE MLUS. OK?

*waits for the Daily Telegraph article about MLUs being closed.

Good - it would be a travesty.

You do realise using words like that in this context devalues them?

Sorry haven't read whole thread so apol for butting in, but can I just quietly point out that 'they' have been closing and trying to close MLUs all over the country in the recent past, and that often the MLU is the nearest and most practical place for women to give birth.
Our MLU was under threat of closure for the reasons given - money needed saving, resources would be channelled into birth centre at regional super hospital. Unfortunately the money saved would not have been enough to enable this to happen effectively, and many women in labour would actually not have had time to get to the regional super hospital (large rural county).
Sorry - hijack over!!

I feel sorry for the women who think they get a badge of honour for delivering the "natural" way. Some just lose sight of the fact that it's not about them, it's about getting the baby out...

And I feel sorry for women who don't want women to feel great about what happened - irrespective of how a child is born. Oh that's right no one in this country is allowed to feel proud of their achievements (if that is how THEY wish to see it) for fear of upsetting anyone else. I am pro-choice with regard to painrelief but lets face it there is still a long way to go to match maternity needs within the NHS. Plus women also have to take responsibility for the fact that it is so difficult to plan for a future (unknown event)and an open mind is the best thing to face labour and birth with.

I think it's a question of tact isn't it. When I recently had my last day at work before mat leave, the very loud women I work with stood in the middle of the office and boomed "I'm made for childbirth. I had two wonderful pregnancies and easy births. I am built to have childen, I could literally do it all day no problem"... seemingly immune to the glares of all the women sitting around her.

I think that everyone is happy when they hear that someone they know has had an easy birth, some of my friends pop babies out with little trouble and that is really wonderful. However other friends have had very traumatic experiences so the easy birth people tend not to bang on about it. And equally the distressing stories are never trotted out when one of us is pg.

No-one wishes bad experiences on people, or thinks that people shouldn't feel happy about having an easy birth, it's just sensible to use a bit of tact.