AIBU - to be really pissed off that epidurals are being restricted?

[christmasmum]

Was just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine saying that epidurals are classed as an 'abnormal birth' and that they should be restricted in the future to avoid women having caesareans.

What is this all about? Why should women not be free to make their own decision on pain relief, while being aware of the risks involved in every form of pain relief? And is it not the case that women having diffcult births in the first place are more likely to BOTH have an epidural AND end up having a c-section anyway??

Before giving birth to my DD I bought into all the information from the NCT, books and magazines etc and was determined to go for a 'natural' birth. I ended up being induced and despite being told by every woman I have ever spoken to who has been induced, that I should have an epidural the midwife advised me that I would not need one. After 10 hours of intense contractions and finding out I was a huge 2cm dilated I decided enough was enough and had an epidural.

I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process, 2 1/2 hours later (despite the consultant arriving to prep me for a c-section) I found out I was fully dilated and delivered my wee girl after 5 minutes of pushing to a room that was full of people laughing and singing Christmas carols.

I obviously only have my own experience to go by but I am absolutely convinced that the relaxing effect of being out pain helped me deliver my baby naturally.

What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'. And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??

AAGGGHHHHH. Rant over.

Those things were all mentioned at my antenatal classes actually LTOS - but they can be side effects of medicalised births too!

crosseyedandpainless - a very thoughtful and interesting post

womble, that's not a good analogy. If this was an online support group for mothers who had had traumatic experiences, then absolutely I'd be an idiot to come on here talking about my good experiences. But it's not. It's for parents - those who've given birth, those who haven't; those who had good births, those who didn't.

I actually feel I have some responsibility to talk about my good births, because there will be women reading this who will be cheered to hear that such a thing is possible (just as they will be forewarned by the stories of trauma and fear).

LeninGrad, I've done the two: vaginal with only TENS and gas, and emergency section. I had exactly the same grin on my face both times.

"Did you know that in the NICE guidelines on C-section it recommends that all women should be told that having a female birth partner significantly reduces your risk of a c-section? Doesn't that one simple fact pull you up short?"

Well no, seeing as I mentioned it in one of my posts ages ago.

As for the rest of your post. I am very happy for you. But to me (maybe I do have a chip on my shoulder, I don't think so) it basically boils down to "you too could have a natural birth if only you took the time to reasearch, and did it properly".

For many women this is simply not true. It was true for you. Good for you. But you can't and shouldn't extrapolate what happened to you, to all the women on this thread who have had very different experiences.

I have to step in now to defend both violet and policy. From what i have read violet certainly has experienced 3 very different labours and is perfectly entitled to say how empowered she felt for the 1st which was natural.

I too have experienced 2 very different labours, neither one went the way i'd planned tbh. I too felt empowered by the natural birth.

Just as i should be able to say how horrible and disheartening the 1st labour was i should also be able to say how wonderful i felt about the 2nd.

The ability to shout loudly about your birth experience is not only reserved for those who have a bad time.

At no point have policy or violet described their joy in a way to cause upset to those of us who have had a bad time.

I agree lenin. And you sound remarkably balanced about your experiences, which is great.

We do need to hear all sides though, which is why I vehemently disagree with HW suggesting that people who have natural births should only talk to others who've had similar!

It's through knowing other people's experiences that we can understand our own better. I still maintain that the single most helpful thing anyone said to me was that birth was horrendously painful, and that I might get to the point where i would want to die! That sounds shocking, but actually was very reassuring when I did get to that point, because I knew I wasn't alone!

Oh and Lenin... Both my labours were opposite ends of the spectrum but made no difference to bonding. The minute they were put in my arms it was there.

I give a flying (or even a stationary) wotsit about what you think Policy And I'm glad you are sharing your experiences. And I think it's great that you're not evangelising about it.

There is a difference between what you are doing (sharing your experience) and evangelising. It's the evangelising about natural birth that makes me shudder actually. So horribly unfair to women.

And withholding pain relief to women who are literally begging for it is brutal and just SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.

Crosseyed..I went through the NCT course and was very well informed.

I don't believe my DS would have come out naturally whatever pain relief path I had taken.

Your situation may have been completely different.

There are risks involved in not intervening.

violet they weren't mentioned at mine - NHS or NCT. Another area where there is a huge variation in what is offered.

Did they really tell you about loss of sexual function as a possible side effect of natural birth? I'm surprised...

Lenin you have clarified a thought I had. Is this natural high/huge empowerment feeling actually relief that the godawful pain has stopped? Crowning is supposed to be excruiating, I would imagine that if that stopped and someone handed you a hamster at the same time and said that was why, you'd be overwhelmed with love for the hamster...

When I read these natural birth threads and the breastfeeding threads, it strikes me that all the emphasis is on the woman being able to cope, the woman being empowered, the woman having the necessary knowledge. Pah!

I had a bloody amazing body which could have laboured for hours

but ds didn't

I was lactating like an old cow and knew everything there was to know about latching on and the letdown reflex

but dd wasn't able to suck

where is the point of my being empowered when I've got these incompetent babies that let the show down at every turn?

it takes two to tango, you know

Thanks barnsley

LTOS, I think you might be getting to one of the crucial points here. On the one hand, it's crass and inaccurate to say that any woman could have a non-interventionist birth if she only prepared properly.

But on the other hand, cross-eyed's stat does prove something, doesn't it? Doesn't it show that with the right conditions, some women who otherwise would have had major, risky interventions like CSs could instead have had less risky deliveries? Isn't that a positive thing, so long as nobody is removing choice?

"But they don't mention tearing, episiotomies, loss of sexual function, pelvic floor knackeredness etc as a possibles/side effects of natural birth either do they? "

They often do in my experience.

"I wonder whether the natural birth movement has moved ahead of NHS capacity in this country - maybe that's one of the problems? Low-intervention births require sympathetic care, unhurried midwives (with no sadistic bitches), expansive and comfortable surroundings, etc."

Good point, but I think the 'natural birth movement' (not one body of course, but many organisations like the NCT, the RCM, RADMID, AIMS etc)does recognise all the barriers to normal birth in our current system of maternity care and is working hard to challenge them.

"the way ante-natal classes etc are conducted and constructed do give the impression of natural birth with as little pain relief as possible being the thing to aim for."

Look - the thing to aim for if possible is a normal birth, because it's not a flipping talent contest or some sort of moral test to see who's the most stoical. Most women want to get out with a healthy baby and their fannies intact - that's their aim, and that's the aim of antenatal education: to help women achieve a healthy, happy birth.

The fact of the matter is that regional pain relief makes normal birth less of a likelyhood - especially for first time mums, and this needs to be acknowledged in any discussion of the subject antenatally, as well as the things that women can do to make it less likely that they'll need an epidural when it comes to it.

That's not to say that antenatal education should gloss over complications in labour. It can't and shouldn't do.

Thanks quattro

I'm pretty sure nobody mentioned loss of sexual function etc as a side-effect of vaginal birth at my NHS antenatal course. There was some general wibbling on about pelvic floor exercises.

Re. the post-birth high - for me, it was more than relief (because tbh - and I'm sorry if this winds anyone up but it is true - the pain I experienced just wasn't that bad). It was as though I'd dropped the most fantastic E, without any come-down or side-effects. And it lasted about two weeks.

Sorry, I'll shut up about it now...

ROFL about the idea of bonding with a hamster LTOS - but actually I think there's some truth in what you say. Crowning is excruciating, and once that baby has slithered out the relief is just ... WOW!
On a deeper psychological level, though, I also think the empowerment is about feeling that you have pushed your body to such an extreme and survived. I felt much stronger, both physically and emotionally, after my natural birth. That's the only way I can describe it really. A bit like when you go through an emotional battering which hurts but makes you feel a stronger person and better able to cope.... I guess a physical version of that.

Don't shut up policy!!! You are equally entitled to describe your pleasant birth experience, just as others are entitled to describe their unpleasant ones. I've experienced both and believe me i've warbled on about both many a time!

"it basically boils down to "you too could have a natural birth if only you took the time to reasearch, and did it properly".

No - this is an unfair accusation. I made the point that for some people nothing they do will make a difference to their chances of operative birth and complications in labour. You have just chosen to ignore this. Why?

I still hold that there are often things we can do which can make a profound difference to our experience of labour and birth.

'And withholding pain relief to women who are literally begging for it is brutal and just SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.'

That's about the size of it.

I've been on both sides of the coin, but I didn't find my drug-free delivery empowering or because I could cope or that.

And I feel that a woman and her requests for pain relief should be heeded.

We all used to do our pelvic floor exercises at my NCT class! Our teacher was very concerned about our future sex lives, and made us all sit in a circle practising clenching!

Er yes, that'll be it Lenin

Thanks barnsley