AIBU - to be really pissed off that epidurals are being restricted?

[christmasmum]

Was just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine saying that epidurals are classed as an 'abnormal birth' and that they should be restricted in the future to avoid women having caesareans.

What is this all about? Why should women not be free to make their own decision on pain relief, while being aware of the risks involved in every form of pain relief? And is it not the case that women having diffcult births in the first place are more likely to BOTH have an epidural AND end up having a c-section anyway??

Before giving birth to my DD I bought into all the information from the NCT, books and magazines etc and was determined to go for a 'natural' birth. I ended up being induced and despite being told by every woman I have ever spoken to who has been induced, that I should have an epidural the midwife advised me that I would not need one. After 10 hours of intense contractions and finding out I was a huge 2cm dilated I decided enough was enough and had an epidural.

I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process, 2 1/2 hours later (despite the consultant arriving to prep me for a c-section) I found out I was fully dilated and delivered my wee girl after 5 minutes of pushing to a room that was full of people laughing and singing Christmas carols.

I obviously only have my own experience to go by but I am absolutely convinced that the relaxing effect of being out pain helped me deliver my baby naturally.

What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'. And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??

AAGGGHHHHH. Rant over.

Stig - me too - one thing that I found really reassuring was to write a letter and let them know my birthing plan THEN visited the manager of the unit and got her to agree in writing that I would be given pain relief of my choice.

Sure enough when I got there the manager wasn't in so they tried the no pain-relief stuff again but THIS TIME I had my signed letter with me and promised that I would litigate if they denied me pain relief again ...

I don't believe epidurals should be restricted at all.

I was in extreme pain at only 1 cm dilated, requested and was given an epidural at 2cm dilated and in the end had an emergency c-section after no progress beyond 4cm.

From the outset one could say I didn't dilate because I was lying on my back with the epidural.

However when my baby was eventually born by c/section it transpired he had been back to back and head tipped wrong way which was stopping me dilating...so even if I had gone through further agony and distress without the epidural the outcome would have been the same....unless the c/section had been denied and we may have both died.

I think my body sensed all along something was wrong..my waters had gone 2 days earlier and continuted to leak, I was exhausted, massively uncomfortable and in a very bad state by the very start of labour. Had also been suffering with SPD for 12 weeks and could barely walk.

If I had had a smoother pregancy, not gone so far overdue, had a smaller baby, and a labour that progressed I may not have needed the epidural...I was quite scared of the idea of an epidural and only went through with it because the pain I was in was so bad.

I would love to have been able to have a straightforward birth with a whiff of gas and air but it just wasn't happening.

I do really wonder if many c/s are a result of the epidural..I expect in most cases the c/s would have been necessary anyway.

barnsley - I was AGREEING that the lady who wanted a medicalised birth should have had better treatment! Do some people not actually read what's written?!

All I am saying is that women who want a MLU should not be denied that choice! I am not the person on here trying to restrict choices.

My point however was to illustrate that care might not be denied due to staffing levels should the resources be fairly placed.

Bloody hell, Quattro! But clever you. Wish I'd have thought of that.

As it was I endured an agonising ferry crossing and ambulance ride over an hour to get to the CLU.

Then, a 4-hour wait for the epidural.

And the midwives kept trying, well, when they were in there, I spent quite a while totally alone as I had no birth partner, to get me to move around and all that crap.

I told them they could mark my words, because I could give Gordon Brown a run for his money in the stubborn stakes any day, but I was NOT having that baby until I got the fucking epidural.

Like you, Sig, I was scarred by my drug-free delivery.

I still have nightmares of being disembowelled, which was how it felt, of being on fire, which was how it felt, etc.

So anyone who tries to say unilaterally that's that is what is best for a person, well, let's just hope you don't wind up reaping what you sow.

So, you're saying that if we shut down a few MLUs then that lady would have got her epidural?

Sorry, barnsley, that's way too simplistic!

The woman should have been given an epidural when she couldn't cope and asked for it.

But women who are choosing to deliver in MLUs have an equal entitlement to the sort of birth THEY want. You're doing what Libra was doing - trying to turn this into an 'either or' scenario. It doesn't have to be.

Our local MLU was shut down, just before I was due to have DD. They were very good with bf'ing help etc but not so good at the births - 4 babies died before they shut it down.

I had my dd at the local hospital (MLU was 20 miles from the hospital btw). I attended NCT classes, read lots of literature and went in expecting a 'normal' birth with as little pain relief as I could get away with.

When the pain started properly I had no contractions - just comstant pain. I ended up hitting my head against the tiles in the bathroom. Had G&A - threw up everywhere. Had pethidine - the same. Eventually I had an epidural - fantastic, I got some rest, had no pain and pushed DD out later. Took 27 hours in all.

I am now pregnant for the second time and am absolutely terrified. My first experience (until the epidural) was horrible, I'd never felt pain like it. I felt betrayed by the NCT classes and a 'failure' for failing to live up to the ideal. I was in shock for a long time and ended up with PND.

This time I want an epidural from the minute I walk in.

Feel free to flame me but I really dislike people who tak about women 'coping' through the pain. Over than in birth when do we ever talk about coping through pain??? Why should anyone? Why is it something to be proud of?

Sorry, rant over.

This has been done to death before on threads, worried.

For many women, the experience of labour is not the same as other types of pain. It is something they feel differently about, they want to labour naturally, and they find it extremelu empowering. That's their right. If you choose to go for a painfree birth, that's your choice too.
But you can't deny other women their right to feel empowered through natural birth.

violethill...you are assuming that everyone has the same pain and some people cope with it and others don't.

I don't believe this...I believe some people are actually in more pain than others in labour.

I'm not saying either or at all and never have i believe. What i think is that most women who are lucky enough to be low risk and get to have their choice of an MLU usually have had a good 1.1 experience with all their needs and hopes met. For those who are not low risk and have to attend the hospital the story is very often different.

To me, that is simply not right. A low risk, natural birth lady gets a "cosy" (your word Violet) environment with all the support she needs. A higher risk lady who actually therefore has no choice but to attend hospital seems to get her wishes stamped on due to staffing levels etc etc.

Why not pool the resources so that we can all have the "cosy" (your word) 1.1 experience. Nurse led beds, consultant led beds. Let's face it, we are not all getting the same experience at the moment.

I know you advocate choice and agree that you want all women to have a good experience, i'm not saying you don't. I'm simply suggesting a potential way of achieving this. Let's face it too, if you are low risk you do have the option of home birth after all. High risk have absolutely no choices re location.

God.... I am not assuming anything!! I am pointing out that some women have natural births and feel great about it, and they shouldn't be made to feel that they can't say that. Just responding to worriedunfortunately.

that was to happywomble btw

Why is there this emphasis on closing MLUs, when AFAIK there's no such proposal anywhere?

If you're intent on improving labour services for women in CLUs - which is an entirely honourable aim - there are plenty of other places you could start. The big one being how to recruit and retain good midwives, I'd have thought - it's my impression that the lack of midwives is the real crisis.

I think every woman who wants one, should get an epidural. However, if you don't want them, I think you shouldn't be pushed to have one.

In may case, I didn't want one, but they really pushed it, because they wanted to have me prepped for a C-section. In the end, I didn't have one and didn't need CS or instrumental birth, but it took a lot of unnecessary strength to argue through labour.
It's should be up to the mother - nobody else.

Hear hear policywonk. Don't know where the ridiculous suggestion to shut them down came from.

The point is there are a supply of midwives working in the MLU's.

Yes barnsleybelle there appears to be a large disparity in different levels of care available which does not seem fair.

There is also a postcode lottery with some areas having far better maternity provision than others.

violethill - do you agree all women should be allowed an epidural on demand if they want one?

I have read the whole thread but cannot now remember whether you said you do agree with epidurals on demand or not.

Hospital environments need to be better to attract more midwives. They certainly seem to get more career satisfaction out of working in MLUs from what I saw.

Violethill

"some women have natural births and feel great about it"

Do you mean great or smug and superior?

No, happywomble, I mean great. That's why I used that word. You have suggested smug or superior which implies that you have may have your own issues with thinking people thing that.

*think that

Of course a midwive is going to prefer an MLU. They are usually nicely decorated, not as fast paced and altogether a calmer place. That's why MLU's are better linked to a hospital as then they have to rotate.

gingerbics I am sorry to hear your experience. It sounds awful.

worried it is bizarrely reassuring for me to find out I am not the only woman who has seen knocking themselves unconscious against a wall a valid thing to seriously consider/start to do during labour. No-one will flame you. You talk about coping with pain - I saw the only way to cope would be to knock myself out - that can't be good. How far along are you with this pg?

violet I think that ginger and worried and people like them represent a side to birth which people who have had relatively easy natural births just don't want to see. i know you had a hard time with your first which has left you very "pro" natural birth. Many women have had first births which has left us very "pro" medicalised births.

I think that as ever many of us are really agreeing with each other - maximum choice of where to give birth and how and easy access to docs etc if it all goes wrong.

unfortunately in practice cost cutting is required which is why people like me get in such a lather when there is any suggestion of restricting choice etc... the fact is that midwife supervised drug free births are cheap, and often "safe" for mother and baby. What is overlooked is the psycholocgical impact of women being forced to labour, often for a long time, without being able to choose the pain relief they want, the problems with mother/child bonding where a woman has had a very difficult birth, and the common compications of natural birth which aren't registered in mortality stats eg loss of sexual function, tears, episiotomies etc. It is no exaggeration to say that women choose to stop after one child due to their first birth, that they can be more prone to PND etc.

Of course the second two things can happen after medicalised births but medicalised births are not the ones being pushed. Or promoted as gold standard etc. And they're not the cheap ones. That is what is scary.