AIBU - to be really pissed off that epidurals are being restricted?

[christmasmum]

Was just reading an article in Mother and Baby magazine saying that epidurals are classed as an 'abnormal birth' and that they should be restricted in the future to avoid women having caesareans.

What is this all about? Why should women not be free to make their own decision on pain relief, while being aware of the risks involved in every form of pain relief? And is it not the case that women having diffcult births in the first place are more likely to BOTH have an epidural AND end up having a c-section anyway??

Before giving birth to my DD I bought into all the information from the NCT, books and magazines etc and was determined to go for a 'natural' birth. I ended up being induced and despite being told by every woman I have ever spoken to who has been induced, that I should have an epidural the midwife advised me that I would not need one. After 10 hours of intense contractions and finding out I was a huge 2cm dilated I decided enough was enough and had an epidural.

I was instantly relaxed and started to actually enjoy the process, 2 1/2 hours later (despite the consultant arriving to prep me for a c-section) I found out I was fully dilated and delivered my wee girl after 5 minutes of pushing to a room that was full of people laughing and singing Christmas carols.

I obviously only have my own experience to go by but I am absolutely convinced that the relaxing effect of being out pain helped me deliver my baby naturally.

What is this pressure on women to be in pain and suffering to be 'real women'. And why is that every new Dad I've spoken to with wives who did not have pain releif seem so proud of them? Is this just another example of male oppression of women? Even subliminally??

AAGGGHHHHH. Rant over.

The money could potentially come from all sorts of places though Libra - it's just that YOU want to take it from MLUs!

That was my starting point on this thread - that the sunject needs debate because people will have all sorts of opinions! Some people would prefer to cut the number of CSections and save money that way. Other people would make cuts in other areas. TBH, MLUs are VERY cost effective, so it seems naive apart from anything else to want to do away with them.

Of course hospitals should be made better! Doesn't mean all women will want to deliver in them though. Respect that choice!

Libra...think is, that even if Midwife led Units are right next to the Delievery Unit of a Hospital, still only low risk women can use them...

I had very mild GD with my ms, and really wanted a homebirth, but was bullied out of that....but hoped I would be able to birth in the mlu, as it was right next to the Delievery Unit of the hospital, and was told I couldn't...I had to go into hospital...of course, after the fact and at a later stage I found out that I could have stood my ground and still have the homebirth...but well, hindsight is a beautyful thing

violet other than reducing the number of c sections what are the other "all sorts of places"??? Am genuinely interested. After 20yrs working in the NHS i really am keen to hear where these resources could come from.

Well reducing the number of csections would save a hell of a lot! I don't work for the NHS so don't have inside knowledge of where money could be used more effectively.

The point I am making is that MLUs are often cost effective, my local one certainly is, and I think closing them down would be a really backwards step.

Well reducing the number of csections would save a hell of a lot! I don't work for the NHS so don't have inside knowledge of where money could be used more effectively.

The point I am making is that MLUs are often cost effective, my local one certainly is, and I think closing them down would be a really backwards step.

Giving birth in a hospital doesn't necessarily mean you are pressurised into using pain relief. I was high risk and already in hospital when I went into labour. Still, nobody suggested anything other than what was in my birth plan, and I was happy to go along with that (TENS and gas).

Did have an em section with ds, but that was due to his medical problems, nothing to do with mismanagement/overenthusiasm by the hospital or my inability to cope.

I actually enjoyed the company of the other mums on the ward though and was in no hurry to go home, either during my pregnancy or after the birth. When you suspect there may be something wrong with your baby, your own lonely sitting room is not necessarily the most cosy place on earth.

"Libra...think is, that even if Midwife led Units are right next to the Delievery Unit of a Hospital, still only low risk women can use them..."

Yes which is yet another reason why all labour choices should be bought up to MLU standards rather than just offering it however I think more low-risk women would take the option of an MLU if it was attached to the hospital.

Yes MLUs are cost effective because they provide a level of support which means expensive pain relief can often be done without and therefore interventions could be avoided. Wouldn't it be nice to provide that level of support in hospital to more people, even more cost effective then.

Personally if I was given a choice of having MLUS and the standard of hospital care currently staying the same OR get rid of the MLUs but bring the hospital care up to MLU standard then I choose the latter option and I think most women would.

Surely one of the defining features of MLUs is that they are not attached to hospitals? Making them much more attractive for the kind of woman who is stressed out by the very thought of hospitals.

This is not to say that all women labouring in hospital should not have the creature comforts available in MLUs - of course they should.

But surely the way forwards is to campaign for better maternity services across the board - not to set up some false opposition between MLUs and CLUs, and to say that we must abolish the first in order to make the second better.

Yes, but YOU are creating that 'either or' scenario in the first place Libra!

The rest of us are saying,yes, make hospitals better for those who want hospitals, and leave MLUs for those of us who choose them!

Oh and the resources could come from abolishing the Trident programme

"rather than just offering it" should read
"rather than just offering it to low risk women"

"Well reducing the number of csections would save a hell of a lot! "

From someone who is screaming choice at the top of their lungs that's a strange thing to say. However I will say that if hospital care was bought up to MLU standards then the number of c-sections would probably reduce.

Exactly policy! Very clearly put.

I had no desire, or medical need, to be near a hospital for my first baby. The local MLU was fine. I just don't see why anyone would want to do away with it, unless they have some hidden agenda to restrict women's choice!

Violet... what you actually said was that the money could come from all sorts of places, when in all fairness you have absolutely no idea where it could come from, other than c-sections.

If you actually look at the stats for nhs c-sections the majority done are due to medical necessity so cutting down would actually create limited funds.

The majority of elective c-sections are done privately.

I was making a suggestion of where the money could come from, as someone asked Libra. That's all.

Personally I prefer policy's idea!

I agree and in a perfect world there would be MLUS, CLUS galore BUT we don't live in a perfect world and the money has to come from somewhere. Personally I think the money would be better spent trying to improve every womens birth experience rather than just the few who are low-risk, near a MLU and don't want any pain relief. Violet disagrees.

But Libra, it doesn't have to be an either/or between those two options.

I think women should be given choices about where they give birth.
Informed choices.

I really think, as this thread goes on Libra, that you have a lot of resentment about MMLUs; you seem to be making this very personal.

There is absolutely no reason why giving birth in hospital shouldn't be a good experience,and maybe that does need better resourcing and training, but it's ridiculous to want to somehow punish women who are able and who choose to deliver in MLUs.

Also restricting choice is making a woman labour on her back or denying her pain relief or only having one birthing pool which is out of order. Making her choose between homebirth and hospital instead of MLU, especially if hospitals offered the same standard of care as MLUs, is way down the list.

Agree policy - Libra has created an 'either or' scenario. It doesn't have to be like that.

I went in with an open mind regarding analgesia, but after having no sleep due to contractions for 3 nights I decided I wasn't coping so thought I'd give them plenty of notice and said I'd like an epidural.

However couldn't believe it when I was told in no uncertain terms that 'an epidural isn't even an option' due to staffing levels. I was struggling and wasn't even offered Pethidine.

At the time I didn't even consider any side effects I just thought 'I can't go on like this'
Really interesting topic to discuss though

Exactly ginger - you were denied a choice you wanted. That's awful.

I can't understand why those wanting to do away with MLUs are trying to deny women choices.

"But Libra, it doesn't have to be an either/or between those two options. "

No it shouldn't, it really shouldn't there should be MLUs all over the place (preferbly attached to hospitals so more low risk people would feel comfortable choosing them), delivery suites in hospitals should be the same standard as MLU. 1:1 care midwife to patient should be compulsory and every single women who gives birth should be treated like royalty.
But that's not the reality, and I do think MLUs take resources away from hospitals and they currently cater for the minority of pregnant women.

I have not read the whole thread but i had a natural first birth and have been scarred for life by it. I am just coming out of my first trimester for my second pregnancy and since the start have been reliving the horrors of my son's birth and am in utter terror of having to go through birth again. I will be demanding an epidural this time round.

But violet... here we have a lady who wanted a medicalised birth but her choice was denied due to staffing levels, in a hospital.

She should be able to have the same standard as a woman who chooses natural..

LIbra, FWIW I agree with you that if it were a straight choice between MLUs and making CLUs more humane places to be, I'd choose the latter at the expense of the former on the basis that more women will use CLUs.

But I really think that everyone's energy would be better spent trying to make birth a better experience for all women who currently feel let down - and that certainly wouldn't involve closing MLUs.

(I must say, just to balance things out a bit, that I had fantastic care from my hospital MWs during my labours.)