To hope that Gordon Brown doesn't resign?

[mrsruffallo]

I still don't think he is doing a bad job. I think he is a very caring and intelligent politician, and I hope he stays.
Am I the only one who feels like this?

ilovemydog- agree on the conviction politician point. The CP term now seems to be used pejoratively against GB ? when it used to be used as a strength?

Taxes have gone up for sure including NI. But on the whole we have had a good run in the last 15 years and we do need to fund a public sector. If we think that the public sector is inefficient in comparison to the private sector then you have to consider the cost of bail out of the private sector when you do summs. I have made a reasonable living from the private sector but we should all recognise the benefits of the private sector.

...have to dash now and feel as though I am straying a bit from the orgiinal point in the thread

...but we should all recognise the benefits of the private public sector.

I thought he was responsible for most of the economic mess. When things were good he kept on telling everyone it was because of him and that the economy was completely stable.

As soon as it went pear shaped he started saying that the financial crisis was a global problem and nothing to do with him. If he takes responsibility for the good times he clearly has some responsibility for when things are not good. The way he has attempted to sort out the financial crisis is also rubbish - he has used so much of taxpayers money to bail out the banks which means extra taxes for everyone who is not employed in the city.

Additionally, it was David Cameron that started the ball rolling with sorting out the expenses scandal and he only followed when he thought it would cost him votes.

As you can tell I am not his biggest fan. I think he should do the country a favour and stand down.

now, see I am in a really interesting position. I dont trust the tories at all (much more then the current labour lot really) and think a lot of the current "bullying" is intensely reminiscent of the last days and weeks of john majors leadership, with incessant back biting and attempts to denigrate an essentially ok man. In a general election I would find it tough to know who to vote for and am very much on the fence HOWEVER. In my local election, for the last two terms we have had an mp who has not only done wonders for our area at large but came out of the expenses fiasco with I think the second or third lowest amount in the whole party so it was Tory all the way. I wonder for how many people there is a difference in the way they perceive politics and politicians on a national and local scale.

Dominic West is a very good actor then isn't he?
Rememeber the episdode where he put on a really bad English accent?
That must have been reallyhard

Maybe I should start a seperate thread

Good luck to Gordon anyway, according to this thread he has a lotmore support than is widely believed

I hope he goes and his stinking government.

I'm a Tory lover through and through.

Labour had a good run for a long time because of the good economy they inherited from the Tories.

(More than can be said for the Tories after the next election.)

GB was never a good chancelllor- he seemed good because of low interest rates and the credit boom- hence everyone thought they were well-off, but at the same time he was putting up every stealth tax he could find, selling off our gold,demolishing the pension pots of millions, spending on everything in the public sector to raise his popularity, handing over a lot of power to Brussels, saving not a bean, not regulating the banks, then pouring millions into them when they went belly up.

Take your blinkers off.

On top of that, he cannot manage, he reacts rather than leads, and he cannot hang on to his own ministers.

In the decade that Labour was messing things up, I can't recall the Tories warning us of the bubble? Funny that they are all criticising in hindsight. Anyway, I am sure that we will all live to see what difference the Tories will make. I hope that they can improve the lot of ordinary people and not just the lucky ones like us.

"In the decade that Labour was messing things up, I can't recall the Tories warning us of the bubble?"

Oh they were- people just didn't want to listen as they were happily borrowing up to 6 x their income to buy houses, or go on holidays!

I just can't recall the Tories making this point. Vince Cable but not the Tories until the recession was already on the way in 2007.

'spending on everything in the public sector..' yep howto, + that's why I love the man. He cares - 'tis what a politician's supposed to do. + it most definitely not to raise his own personal popularity. Rarely has there been a man so inept at doing that as Gordy. Bless the man, he could most definitely do with a bit of help on that one.

Are you kidding?

He'll only leave No. 10 kicking and screaming or feet first in a box.

Weirdly expat, I think he's stuck. I do think he's big enough to recognise and go if it's the best thing for labour, but if he goes it'll mean a leadership election, then they'll have to go for a general election which they'll lose massively. Whereas if GB holds on, and if the new cabinet stay firm and then the economy does start to turn in the Autumn (as many are predicting) they may have a chance of not being slaughtered. Especially when election approaching means DC and his lot can't duck from laying out actual policies - something they've spectacularly failed to do so far. Sadly their avoidance in doing so has been made absurdly easier by all the in-fighting in the Labour Party.

Last I checked, no one was holding a gun to his head and forcing him to stay in office.

smee- the reason the Tories keep their ideas under wraps is because if they don't, Labout steals them- remember the Inheritance Tax fiasco?

Why you think massive public spending is in itself a virtue, I don't know. More money does not equal better services, especially when a lot of it goes to admin/middle managers rather than those actually doing the job.

I want to move to East Oxford and have Andrew Smith as my MP. I came across his expenses claim on his website today and they were enough to restore my faith in politicians. He and his wife have lived in Blackbird Leys for the last 30 years and his second home is on an estate in Lambeth (and no it doesn't have a moat). He claimed for mortgage interest(under £500), a gas bill, buildings insurance and a few phone calls, not a lot else and it was certainly under £1k for the entire year. I'm sure there are others like him out there. I think there should be a role call for the non corrupt MPs who just work bloody hard for the communities they represent.

agree jellybrain. My MP (Gareth Tomas) wrote to me to apologise for 1k of gardening expenses. That was the only thing questionable but I thought that he did well in comparison.

howtotell- i think the real reason for not disclosing policies are:
1)Avoids internal split
2)Give the opposition something to attack
3)Gives less degrees of freedom when in office

Also the modern politician that is DC, is all about being a nice chap, lots of magine pieces like webcameron. It is all about saying that I am your sort of fellow. You can trust me as opposed to that odd looking, Stalinist Mr Brown. It is not really about policies and conviction. Policies come from the focus groups and pollsters. The modern way is the big-brother, call in way. We just have to get used to the new way.

Interesting thing about the MPs going nuclear in the Labour Party is that they were the ones who had problems with expenses (like Purnell and Blears) so instead of being reshuffled out they go nuclear. Makes them look brave and deflects from their shame.

Blears strikes me as a bit self serving if not an annoying person.

Was saying to an American political junkie friend last night that the problem with the assassins is that they are trying to kill a strong ox with a blunt knife...

What I find hardest to accept about Gordon Brown is his continued attempts to present himself as someone with a moral core and Presbyterian values who is not arrogant. This is in spite of the following:

1. Acolytes such as Charlie Whelan, Ed Balls and Damian McBride to name but a few - thuggish, bullying people he has surrounded himself by. "Thou shalt be known by thy friends".
2. Briefing against Alistair Darling, a man who has shown him more loyalty than he deserved, and then denying that he had done so - after saying he would talk with candour.
3. Undermining Tony Blair during his whole premiership because he felt piqued at not going for the leadership. He then proceeded to undermine anyone who could have opposed him when he did become leader because he felt it was his right to become PM - but of course he is not arrogant.
4. Trumpeting that with his moral compass he is the person to clean up Parliament and the expenses problem - despite Paddy Ashdown revealing on Channel 4 News that Tony Blair had wanted to do something about expenses but Gordon was blocking his way.
5. Refusing to accept responsibility and apologise for anything personally and attributing whatever goes wrong to other, global factors.
6. No vision, often only introduces policies which costs millions even billions and go nowhere - £12 billion wasted on the NHS computer system.
7. Keeps on saying that he is a serious man for serious times but can call Simon Cowell and Piers Morgan to check on how Susan Boyle is. He can also recruit Alan Sugar who only last year bemoaned the maternity rights woman have in the UK.
8. Treatment of women in his cabinet. Okay, Caroline Flint has shot herself in the foot but it doesn't change the facts that women have been marginalised - see the way the terribly loyal Margaret Beckett has been shoved aside.

These are just off the top of my head and they only scratch the surface. He is a bureaucrat who was never fit to be leader but whose arrogance and sense of entitlement have told him otherwise. He has been a disaster for the Labour Party and the country.

Can't stand the man - please go away and leave us alone - you have done enough damage.

Extremely- so you don't like him then?

I think all politicians had media managers these days. Brown's, apparently crossed the line and has caused him great problems. He must take some of the blame. But I can see how he has been told that his media image is a big part of the problem re:Cameron outperforming him. And I can see how he has tried to ape Blair and Cameron but the media and the camera don't like him nearly as much.

Mr Substance doesn't beat Mr Media so Brown will have to give way to a prettier southern face. It was the original reason why Mand chose his junior, Blair, ahead of him.

When I vote, I try to look behind all the media hype and work out what I am voting for. I pay a decent slice tax as a higher rate tax payer and wonder where it is all going. But I am still stuck with voting for a party whose central aim is looking after the more vulnerable in society. For me there is a basic test of decency in what is after all one of the richest countries in the world. So who is that party sticking up for? If their primary concern is reduce taxes for the well off so that we can have more holidays and better afford private schools (nothing against these as i use them) , then I am suspicious. I quite like DC - he is very charming and sensible- but he hasn't told me how he is sticking up for those who haven't had the good fortune that I have had.

I'm up for a General Election. Gordon wants to stay and do the job that's required and feels that he is the only one that can do it? Well democracy is letting the nation decide if you're up to it! If he believes that he is the only one that can do the job, he should have nothing to fear by calling an election because surely there will be a majority who will feel the same way? Or will they?

I don't believe Gordon was a good Chancellor. World Economies were booming and we got caught up in it. In much the same way as World Economies are all suffering now and we can't just turn around and blame the PM.

Gordon sold our gold at the bottom, made the tax/benefit system extremely complex so that it is prone to errors/failures, but comes at a very high administrative cost for the taxpayer before the rest of the money gets anywhere at all.

But mainly,Labour have been just too controlling for my liking. And forcing decisions for people just takes away personal responsibility which is a really bad idea.

Time for a change for me.

He won't go voluntarily. But I wish he would.

He must know he's going to get trumped by the Tories in a general election and is probably quaking, desperately trying to retain order in his house and running from one crises to the next.

The man's a joke. I can't wait for him to go.